I have learned via the comments that mining is successful because it is an AFK activity. First thing learned, to add in some sort of silly mini-game (which is what this suggestion does) will cause non-bot mining to die. Folks will cancel alt-mining accounts. There'll be all sorts of forum screaming. It will not be good for the game. Second thing learned, bot technology has come a long way since the days of Ultima Online and Everquest. Today, bot technology relies heavily on image analysis. Hell, bots can actually run complexes and missions. So the suggestion below isn't going to stop bots, they'll make them even more necessary. The other thing I've learned is that if you're going to make suggestions on "improving" mining, actually be a miner. Sure, I can fly a Retriever, but I only mine very occasionally.
Mining, as we all know, is boring. Passive and boring. It's also extremely prone to botting. How, then, to combat both boredom and botting? Add some interactivity to the mining process. Someone, somewhere, posted a similar idea, linking to some existing game. I decided it might be useful to mock-up the EVE Online user interface to show the concept in situ.
This full screen game view shows the new Mining window in context. As soon as you start cycling your mining laser, the mining window pops up.
Here is the larger view of the mining interface, animated.
The blue line, with the little sparks coming out of it, is the laser. The concentric rings denote mining efficiency from some base yield. The mining laser moves erratically to the very outer edge of the circle. The job of the user is to use the arrow keys to keep the mining laser in the center circle. If a player does nothing, the laser will move to the outside circle, and they will mine at 25% of the base yield. If the base value for Veldspar is 200 units per cycle, then 25% of that would be 50 units. If the user can keep the laser in the center circle, they will collect a 150% yield (or 300 units per cycle, given the previous example.)
The laser would move slowly and less erratically for common ores, but more rapidly and frenetically for rarer ores. The same principle would apply to ice.
This concept gives some interactivity to mining (albeit, not super exciting), and that interactivity should help combat botting. If a bot cannot react to the new interface, it is doomed to a 25% yield.
Sounds nice in theory, but can you really imagine anyone playing this minigame, or any other minigame, for hours at a time, multiple times a week, for years? I've yet to see a game where repetitive minigames did not become tedious after the first few hours, especially when they were little more than "monkey see, monkey do." At least right now mining provides a decent semi-passive income. I suspect most dedicated miners would prefer boredom to annoying minigames. Those who want more exciting PvE content can always run incursions.
ReplyDeleteAlso, a bot account's break-even point is extremely low. A bot account can probably mine at 10% yield and still make a profit. At most, the mining bot owner will switch to a mission- or anomaly-running bot program instead.
Hi, this is useless.
ReplyDeleteHere is the pseudo code for a potential bot that solves the above mining challenge.
while(mining == true){
if(laser is below center) move up
if(laser is right of center) move left
if(laser.....
Also, it looks boring, ugly and like a pain in the ass for the legitimate user.
@anonymous #1 You're probably right. I wouldn't want to do either. :)
ReplyDelete@anonymous #2 I'm not sure how complex bots are now. The bot would require image processing, no? To know where the laser is? I suppose if a bot can run missions, then they must be reasonably complex utilities and do engage in image analysis. (I'm guessing the information from the server is encrypted, if not, I suppose a less complex bot could just sniff the data stream for relevant info.) As to its appearance ... I'm sure CCP could make it look prettier.
Fixing mining really should be a big priority for CCP, especially with the rumored changes to drone poo coming. I think something between this and the PI system would be ideal, I just don't know exactly what.
ReplyDeleteWhile a nice idea this would probably make mining more boring and not less. Anytime anyone has added a minigame to make something "more interesting" it usually has the opposite effect. There are very few minigames that when forced on a player (or in this case forced on anyone who want to mine) and still be considered fun (and not mind numbingly tedious).
ReplyDeleteWell, it's an idea, but one that is easy to circumvent. Most bots are seemingly non-invasive. They don't actually interact with Eve or its executable, they interact with the pictures on your monitor. They use modified versions of optical character and shape and color recognition. Because they use OCR, it's no problem for a bot to keep a laser beam in the middle of a colored circle. In fact, a bot could likely do it faster and more accurately than a person. Add to that, the fact that most people are likely not going to appreciate the mini game aspect being added.
ReplyDeleteBeing a miner at heart, I have thought about it a lot. I can't see a method for changing the mining process that takes away the monotony, or makes it non-exploitable by bots. Hell, there are far more sophisticated bots that people use to run plexes and rat, that include looting, salvaging, drop-off at staion/POS and ammo resupply, and different reactions to red, blue or neut ships in system. Sitting at a belt draining a rock is mindlessly simple by comparison.
It's funny how people still like to fixate on macro mining so much still, when it is such a low income yield compared to the equally well known botting of complexes and low/null sec ratting. Billions and billions of isk can be made from rat loot. I can't imagine how many loads of ABC I'd need, to make a billion isk vs rare drops from rats that are worth hundreds of millions, that people easily get multiple times a day by bot ratting.
@Pointy If bots have become so advanced that they use image processing over any of the older traditional methods, then the suggestion above will not stop them, as you've stated.
ReplyDeleteYou're also right, that people have become so accustomed to AFK mining, that any "mini-game" would cause cries of rage.
At least its a idea though may not be the best of idea's. Botters will find a way around that i'm sure. I'm not much a miner either, though sometime i like to go mining to just relax and think while mining and just actively searching the regional markets. Its hard to come up with any worthwhile solution that someone isn't going to be bot proof and people won't get bored with. Peoples actions by habit can often lead to their own boredom.
ReplyDeleteMining has always bothered me in that belts of known groups of rocks exist in systems all over. Some rocks in real life you can look at and know it has a known composition of minerals. But most rocks you have to do some form of analysis to guess or find out its exact mineral composition within and determine if its worth mining or not.
I doubt you can always look at a massive hunk of space rock and tell yes that rock at XYZ grid or the asteroid belt beyond Mars has this and that in it. You have to do some form of analysis to tell whats in it or scan the rock or spectrometric analysis maybe just like you can tell chemical composition of stars and nebulae's in deep space.
I don't exactly know but maybe a idea can be some way to scan down individual unknown asteroids scattered in a system or belt regions and actually determine their spectrometric composition for minerals. Maybe a off shoot idea like PI maybe too. The Asteroids can vary in what they yield in types of mineral density makeup maybe. Some can be quite rich in mineral makeup and yield. But you have to can them to find what they yield and where. That can be be more interesting to some.
I don't have the full idea but its a start. On the flip side of that is whatever CCP come's up with someone else gonna always say it takes too much time, it kills their current mining efficiency, its not fun, I can't do it afk, its not bot proof enough and why do that as well. In todays world it hard to do anything to please the masses in the name of fun and be interesting to do.
Clearly, you dont have enough miners.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of mini games, but I think you are moving in the wrong direction here. As has been said previously it is still easy to bot. Also ships with multiple lasers will have to do this for each laser at the same time? That is what we have targeting computers for.
ReplyDeleteWhat if the asteroids rotated around a fixed position. This would make it harder to get a good waypoint.
Either way, I don't currently play eve right now, but if the next expansion included a major update to mining I would reactivate my accounts again and get back into it.