Monday, December 5, 2011

100 Tristans - Jar of Flies

If you want to learn anything about Tristan combat. You don't want to be reading this blog. I lost five Tristans to the same Rifter fit, and I could not once get hull damage on the ship. I tried a variety of different variations on my standard fit through five losses.

I met corpmate, Flies Incandenza, in Villore for some PvPing. He's actually quite good, and is soon to be joining The Tuskers. So, who better to practice with and get some tips from. I was hoping for at least two kills. It ended up being completely embarrassing.

(You can click each Tristan header for the respective killmail.)

Tristan 006
Here I used the same fit I've been using for the last five Tristans. It's a good baseline, I figure. From this fit I can tweak. I don't even think I get him below 50% armour.

Tristan 007
I decided I'd give a Small Armor Repairer II a try. I drop the 200mm Rolled Tungsten for it. (Probably should have dropped the Adaptive Nano Plating II, instead, though I don't think it would have made much of a difference.) I fare even worse in this configuration. Everything I've been taught up to this point has informed me that active repping is for PvE, passive repping is for PvP. Yet, so many people seem to use Small Armor Repairer modules on their armour-tanked frigates.

Tristan 008
For the hell of it I decide to use an ECM Burst II. With this fit, I'm just hoping to confuse Mr. Incandenza. Maybe he won't notice his target lock has dropped for a good ten seconds. Not to be the case. Flies is on the ball. The ECM Burst II cycles extremely slowly, so do not get a second chance to drop his target lock before he sends the magic signal that tells my ship it is time to eject the pod.

Tristan 009
The 125mm Railgun IIs are not doing enough damage. So I switch to Light Neutron Blaster IIs using Null S ammo. My optimal is down to 1.4km (less than half of what it is with the rails.) I never get into range for more than a moment or three. At some point during the fight, I try to slingshot Flies (I turn 180 degrees, fly out beyond his web range, then immediately turn, burn back, hoping to shoot into my optimal.) It works briefly. But it isn't enough.

Tristan 010
I decide to stick with the previous fit again. If I can get into range, this has to be the winning combination. Since I know he's warping to our combat area at zero, I decide to do the same. At least I'll start the fight at under my optimal. He moves faster than I do, each of us webbed. So it doesn't take long before he's outside my optimal, then outside my first falloff. I have to resort to slingshotting him again. He's more prepared for it this time. I'm getting used to this final result. Being despondent might be my lot in life when it comes to PvP. I imagine that my one kill, four days ago, might be my last.

=========

There were occasional mistakes made. Once, forgot to web him entirely. Another time, forgot to sick my single drone on him. Even with the odd silly mistakes, they were not the difference between winning and losing. The fights where I didn't make any human error, I never came close to winning.

I have an approximate 1.5M SP advantage on him in the Gunnery skills area (my 3M SP to his 1.5M SP). So a tad frustrating that it didn't seem to give me the advantage I was hoping for.

What did I learn?

I learned that I can't beat Flies armor tank. I learned some stuff about overheating. The first fight I waited 6-10 seconds before starting to overheat weapons. I learned that in frigate fights, you should start overheating ASAP; it takes awhile before the modules burn out, usually longer to burn out than a frigate fight lasts.

I also learned that I can keep within proper weapon range with the railgun fit. The Rifter easily dictates range on me when I use the blaster fit. Most frigates seem to have optimal/falloff ranges comparable to my railgun fit. Of course, that is sort of bad, since we're both fighting in our optimals. I should maybe try different railgun ammo that gives me a range of perhaps 16km ... keep the enemy in their second or third falloff, while I'm in my optimal. That, of course, will be very slow, plinky damage, would probably never get through their armor before I run out of ammo, capacitor or patience.

This is Flies standard fit, the fit I went up against five times.

[Rifter]
150mm Light AutoCannon II x 3 (Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S)
E5 Prototype Energy Vampire

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension I x 2


Any advice out there?

17 comments :

  1. Some thoughts:

    1) the SAM II can be used for PvP, as you said you discovered. It usually makes up for a lower buffer. On the other end, you could fit a 400 plate, so you have massive buffer with a do or die mentality. (I like 400 plate rifters, but 1v1 the active fits always win)

    2) If you're not having luck with an AB fit tristan, lets try the other end: MWD kiting fit. Missiles instead of rockets (if you fit missiles at all for this fit), railguns with longer range. The fight will be slower, but you'll be dictating the range and with patience you'll eventually plink him to death.

    3) The above is understandably less cap stable, and you'll probably need to sacrifice tank for the speed and cap. Many arty rifters have zero tank, instead relying on range dictation ot keep them alive.

    4) if you use the MWD fit, any semi experienced AB pilot will try to slingshot you. ie, burn away, and when your orbit command tries to compensate, burn directly at you and snag you with a scram. Manual piloting is a must, and you have to on top of your game to make sure you don't miss his slingshot attempts

    5) a semi viable tactic is to use keep-at-range. Match his max speed with your MWD and stay X away from him with a few km buffer. Less piloting, but you'll need to rebuild that distance buffer every time he closes the distance.

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  2. SAM II? You mean SAR II? I'm not fluent in all the acronyms, still.

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  3. Phalanx rockets... hopefully you have decent rocket skills. Tristans require em, at least to 4s, including the support skills.
    Also, try the rail fit with faction antimatter, or a blaster fit with faction uranium. People will say "lack of DPS" but DPS on paper doesn't mean shit if you can't hit the target because it's too far out.

    Also, one of the big things that's killing you is the 3 armor rigs. Even if you have perfect armor rigging skill, you're still giving up 15% of your potential top speed. Tristans are slow and fat, so you need to keep as much of that speed as you can. I'd say anti-explo, collision accel, burst aerator for rigs if you can fit it all. If not, collision accel & leave a rig slot empty.

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  4. @True I will get to work on a longer, range kiting fit.

    @Hong My missile skills aren't that great. Rockets IV. Missile Bombardment IV. Missile Launcher Operation IV. Missile Projection III. Rapid Launch III. Target Navigation Prediction III. Warhead Upgrades II.

    As for the Burst Aerator, I'll see if I can fit it ... problem with those weapon rigs is that it requires more powergrid and I'm tight on powergrid for the most part.

    Thanks for the advice. I'll be playing with EFT for some new fits. I feel like I now have to blow Flies Rifter up ... if I don't, I feel like I cannot be successful against anything. I'm now thinking Flies is my PvP baseline for improvement.

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  5. A couple of thoughts. If a standard fit isn't working, try non-standard.

    Gallente ships aren't known for their speed and minmatar ships are. Drop the AB, fit scram and 2 webs. Bring him down to your level. (Also neut to turn his ab off?)

    Nano Tristan. If you can dictate the range, you'll win with superior damage.

    Just some thoughts. I have no idea if they'll work or even if you can fit such a beast.

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  6. @Crash I thought about equipping a neut, but since he equips a nosferatu, I figure I wouldn't get the benefit from the neut that I'd want, he'd simply continue to gain cap by draining me.

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  7. Don't get discouraged! You still have 90 Tristans

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  8. You should check out Jester's blog. In particular, look at the link to your blog.

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  9. I know. Freaking Blogger. I accidentally published the wrap-up while I was editing it ... now it's on every feed. Maybe I'll unpublish this entry and republish ... maybe that will fix the issue.

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  10. Neut still hurts my active tank, but I try to stay away from that range when you use blasters. I haven't fought any MWD Tristans yet but I'm still pretty bad at slingshotting.

    Some corrections: I have under 1 mil sp in gunnery =), and *hopefully* soon to be joining the Tuskers.

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  11. @Flies Under 1M SP in Gunnery?! You embarrass me further, sir! This is a grievous wound you inflict. We shall meet again upon the battlefield, where I will receive recompense for these injuries you cause.

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  12. On the "bright" side, at least this is living, documented proof that the Gal/hybrid buff did NOT make Gal ships OP. ;-)

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  13. @Hong The Gall/Hybrid buff didn't make the skill-deprived (me, in this case) overpowered. In the right hands, maybe they are pretty darned good.

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  14. @Hong WeiLoh maybe not their t1 frigs, but their t2 frigs were already pretty good, and now they are better.

    @Poetic nah I just think this fit is just perfect against AB Tristans

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  15. Poetic--lol right, I'm just saying, in general, that was a big worry I'd seen, that the buff would make Gal "insta-win OP". I shall bookmark this page and refer anyone making such claims here. ;-) At least you'll have more hits. :-D

    Flies--Ishkur was badass for drones, not hybrids Hybrid/Gal buff may in fact make Ishkurs slightly (emphasis "SLIGHTLY") OP... Taranis def got a buff though, and I'm sure people will shed many "OP" tears over that, though we'll see. I have yet to take my lil fleet of Enyos out on any serious PvP roaming action, so I've yet to see how my fave lil AF handles there. :-D

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  16. I'd try something like this against the standard kiting Rifter. Try to chill at 7-8 km.

    [Tristan, RAILPEEVEEPEE]
    Damage Control II
    Small Armor Repairer II
    200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

    1MN Afterburner II
    Stasis Webifier II
    J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

    75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge S
    75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge S
    Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
    Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket

    Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
    Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
    Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I


    Hornet EC-300 x1

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  17. @Arec I'll keep that in mind. Flies Rifter is not a kiting Rifter, though. I'm going to have to create a kiting Tristan to combat his fit.

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