With everyone talking about unified inventories, CCP Sreegs, and missile trails, we should check in on the new wardec system, specifically some of the new features introduced that allow us to peek in on any war by any alliance, past or present. Since Inferno is less than a week old, and since wars run for a week minimum, we'll see what is happening in the present.
It's hard to really say that the Carebear Conventicle is schooling Goonswarm in this war, since the Carebear Conventicle seems to be docked up, doing absolutely nothing. All of the kills have come from the eight mercenary groups the Conventicle have managed to attach to the war. They pretty much advertised to all-comers that if they wanted to kill Goons, they could join with the Conventicle in doing just that. Successful from a mercenary/defender perspective. Under the previous system, the war would be zero ISK versus zero ISK. The Carebears would be docked up, complaining on the forums on how they would just like to be left alone, the Goons would be off doing Goon things.
This seems a tad embarrassing. Test sets out to punish Issler Dainze for being on the CSM and being bad at it. The lesson here is that Test Alliance is easy pickings? The lesson here is that if the CFC isn't flying around in 2000 man blobs, they don't really have much of a clue what to do on their lonesomes? Granted, the Hondas have 20 allies helping them out. Checking today (I screencaptured all these images last night), the numbers have only increased in favour of The Honda Accord.
To be fair, I'm thinking that most Goons and Test don't even realize they are at war with anyone until they're popped in highsec. WTFs in corp chat, after winding up in their pods or back at home station. Then to senior personnel to explain what a wardec is to them. Hell, they mostly live in null, why would they need to know about wardecs? You minimize local when you enter highsec, right?
We can't look at current wars without checking out what EVE University is doing. There are twelve mercenary groups attached to this war, yet they haven't done much of anything to assist Kelduum's Ovis Army. All of the kills seem to be coming from EVE University pilots. So kudos to them for holding their own against the po-po.
In reality the EVE University/Space Police fight is fairly even, the big boost coming from this particular pod kill by Kermit Pental (she tried to kill me just last week), which is a nice feather in the cap for any corporation/alliance during any war. It's actually more a testimonial to including implants on killmails than anything else.
"Don't shoot until you see the whit of their eyes."
Richard Whiteyes cried himself to sleep that night.
The RvB numbers here are almost entirely pre-Inferno. CCP/CSM kindly requested of the RvB folks to stop their war and restart under the new system. Currently they are on a 48 hour hiatus. What the hell is RvB going to do with themselves if they can't shoot each other in the face? 48 hours is going to be an eternity for them.
Impressive kill numbers, nonetheless.
***
The mercenary system seems pointless as a marketplace. When a defender can add as many allies/mercenaries as they want, there's little in the way of searching for the best. There's little in the way of financial competition. Most are willing to join for free. Unquestionable Prosperity Alliance, for instance, is attached to 71 wars at the time of this posting. They aren't being particularly effective in any of them (all eleven members, of which at least two are alts.) If they weren't offering their services (we use that word very loosely here) for free, I would doubt they'd ever get employment in a mercenary role.
If CCP's intention is to create an actual marketplace, where merc groups compete with each other based on skill, then defenders should be limited in the number of allies they can add to a war. This would force defenders to be more choosy with who they invite onto their side, monetary considerations would have a greater chance of playing into the decisions, a merc group's resumé would actually matter. As it stands now, mercs can't charge for their services, because their histories, their successes, mean nothing, because defenders can add twenty, thirty, forty tom, dick and harry merc groups for free, it doesn't matter that they're scrubs, defenders are adding as many free bodies as possible. There's no consideration or thought involved in choosing allies under the current system. (I may write about this entire issue all on its own.)
For the most part, the new wardec mechanics, as well as all the UI systems in place to support it, are fantastic. But there still needs to be some iterating, especially the ally/mercenary system, but all-in-all CCP can chalk this up as 95% win.
Sunday, May 27, 2012
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Couple of points
ReplyDelete1) You don't make an "economy" in a week; let the merc marketplace sort itself out. Apparently people working for free is going to "ruin EvE" -- which is incredibly short sighted.
2) The goal of the CFC in those wars is to grief the bears. They do this whether they get stragglers picked off in highsec or not. They're winning the war based on their own set objectives and don't give a fuck about K:D ratios, thats for highsec elite PVP!
WRT to the above, they usually lose about that much (minus the one 3bil hauler loss, I guess) in that time frame - difference is you can see it in the UI now and you don't need to stick filters on killboards.
Oh, it's pretty much already sorted itself out. It's not that working for free is bad, it's that with no cap, there's no incentive to hire the best of the best. Just throw as many free scrubs at the problem as you can. Until there's a cap on the number of allies a defender can invite/hire, then I don't see the current situation going away.
DeleteI'm not sure how TEST taking 7B ISK in losses, while inflicting 0 ISK is griefing. Unless Honda treats wars much as EVE Uni does ... dock up, no matter if the enemy is online, offline, or even bothering to look for you.
DeleteI'm in test, and tbh, I've never heard about that wardec at all. I do remember getting popped by a merc alliance when I was hauling PI, but they are right, for the most part, it's not really something that we are very aware of.
DeleteIf they come into fountain, that's a different story.
The incentive to hire the best is they're the best. It's self fulfilling; supply and demand in action. Bel makes a good argument if you want to interfere, but disagree that placing caps on player made groups is good. You could as easily argue for a 5k member cap on alliances. Or ban more than 100 allied ships on grid. It's pointless. Supply and demand is everywhere, or noone would use a 1mil T2module when a 10k meta 0 shoots ammo all the same. Or a T3 instead of a T2 cruiser.
DeleteThe limit should be on the number of wars an ally can assist in, rather than how many allies a given corp can have. Limit the resource, rather than the ability to consume the resource...
ReplyDeleteAs long as tactical decisions need to be made on some side of the equation. It's all fine with me.
DeleteInteresting comment. Why is it that you favor CCP tweaking things in order to introduce "tactical decisions" here, but you're just fine with twits being able to suicide 300M+ mining hulls in throwaway Destroyers?
DeleteIt might sort itself out; if you are a high sec care bear corp the last thing you want to do is prolong wars by giving the attacker easy targets. Scrub mercs with crappy K/D ratios will not help them in the long run, and care bears will stop using them if it keeps getting them wardecced.
ReplyDeleteWhat's wrong with scrubs? Sometimes in a war, having a lot of bodies on the field is what matters most. And honestly, I think CCP designed the new system in order to get more people involved. To turn around and tweak it so that it becomes yet another high-end, exclusionary game mechanic would be absurd. For starters, a limit on how many allies one can enlist to support a wardec would automatically rule out smaller mercenary corps. I don't think it would have a big effect on the quality of the mercs themselves. The biggest bang for your buck would come from hiring the most populous merc corps you could find, regardless of skill. We'd just see the same dynamic, only people would become choosy on corp membership numbers, leaving smaller corps with no takers.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day, it probably doesn't matter too much. Corps who care about quality mercs will hire quality mercs. We don't need to "iterate" the mechanics in order to force them to choose the "best of the best" (whatever that means), because if they want that, they can already get that under the existing mechanics. If they don't care about quality, who are we to force it on them?
The really interesting thing about allowing unlimited allies is that it open up the merc corp as yet another avenue for accessible PvP. Just start up a corp with your pals and join as many wardecs as you can for free fights, without having to join RVB or FW. Why would we want to discourage this by creating some top-down regulation to limit the amount of allies on a single dec? Would there ever be a limit on the number of allies (aside from the maximum population figure) a war participant in the real world could have? Of course not. Why here?
Can you fly space ships and mine asteroids in this world? Your point is invalid. Also, the point of the argument is if the merc market was for merc corps to have a legit way of doing business, how can they be profitable if you can get 100 shit corps for less than 1 good one. That's like BMW trying to sell quality cars on a market where Saturn is giving them away for free. They way this is set up now invalidates the entire reason it was created...
DeleteAlso, first post!
Progress sometimes happen slowly. At least the Wars are more interesting than before with more interesting statistics with allies involved. Maybe things will sort themselves out more over time but will see. Things take time in EVE.
ReplyDeleteProgress, it sometimes happens slowly.
What you, Bel, Khan, Bandsaw and Anonymous have to say are all good points. When I get around to writing about the Mercenary Marketplace, my words will be coloured by your and their comments on the issue.
Delete