Faction warfare needs as little in the way of PvE as possible. We have missions for PvE, nothing else is required in that regard.
(tl;dr All plex timers are increased by a multiple of three, 30 minutes for minors, 45 minutes for mediums, and 60 minutes for majors. Rats are replaced with web/scramming towers; these towers do no damage. Destroying a tower knocks five minutes off a timer. Minor plexes have four towers, mediums have six towers, and majors have eight towers. Tower EHP is some factor of the largest ship type allowed into a particular plex type.)
By the same token, those players that use 10MN afterburning, weaponless frigates, their style of gameplay shouldn't be killed off entirely, though making that style of gameplay untenable is certainly a reasonable design objective.
The problem with any type of rat is that it will affect, in some way, the desirability of PvP fits for plexing, promoting adaptation to PvE in some way. This is an undesirable outcome.
Instead of rats, why not towers? These towers do two things, and two things only. They webify and they warp scramble and/or disrupt. They do no damage, whatsoever. The solo plexer can still plex, though it leaves them slow sitting ducks for enemies. PvP fits are unaffected. (If a PvP fit is built for speed, then destroying the towers returns the ship to its regular operating parameters.)
The towers would have some multiple of EHP equal to the largest ship allowed into a plex type. For minor plexes, tower EHP would be equal to three or four times the average EHP of a destroyer. Towers would regenerate armour at a rate consistent with plex type, such that T1 frigates would be unable to bring down major towers.
Destruction of a tower decreases the plex timer by five minutes. Thus, plex timers are increased threefold from their current values. Minor plexes are increased to 30 minutes, and minor plexes contain four towers. Medium plexes are increased to 45 minutes, and medium plexes contain six towers. Major plexes are increased to 60 minutes, and major plexes contain eight towers. Destroy all the towers, the plex timer is reduced to current levels.
Towers will respawn if the the timer bubble is left empty for more than two minutes (the timer increases by five minutes per tower respawn, up to the maximum timer value for a particular plex type.)
Just a thought. Seems people are stuck on the idea that plexes need rats, but that the rats should not force people to move away from PvP fitting their ships. My thought was, why do we need rats then? What type of object could negatively affect PvE fits that plex, while affecting PvP fits not at all (or very minimally for a very short while.)
Looking forward to thoughts and discussion on the idea.
I think that if you take out the rats then it could just become a sit there and do nothing to finish the plex, not any real risk involved is there?
ReplyDeleteThere is no risk involved currently. You can speed tank any Major in a fast, weaponless frigate. If an enemy militia arrives, you warp away.
DeleteNow the fast, weaponless frigate can do the same plex in thrice the amount of time, and if an enemy militia warps in they are stuck, because they are scrammed.
Risk actually increases for the current method of plexing.
Plexes aren't supposed to be anything inherently risky, they are supposed to be beacons for PvP. My suggestion (hopefully) makes PvEing these sites untenable, and returns them to being places solely for PvP to occur.
This is true ... in the 1 day I did in FW a long time again all I flew was a ceptor to kite rats, maybe a shake up is needed.
Deleteimplement, a major NPC in the mediums use a tier2 BC = hurricane, if the militia leader doesnt die, the LP is 1/2d and the control bonus is 1/8 the normal the leader NPC would have 1 medium nuet and a warp disrupter
ReplyDeletein the large sites use a hull such as the mael or the abbadon
these should be buffer tanked exclusive rats with no rep rate the BC should be 40K ehp and the BS around 120K ehp
you shouldnt be allowed to capture a site even though the amarr fleet is still in the site.
What about a warp disruption bubble which covers all of the button plus a 10km area for minors, 20km for mediums and 30km for major. The warpin would be moved closer as well, half of the bubble overlap from the beginning of the bubble (5km minor, 10km medium, 15km major). Everything else can be removed.
ReplyDeleteIt would make plexing much more dangerous as you cannot just run as soon as somebody warps in, you've got to fight or run. To stop people sitting in speed only fits on the opposite site of the warp in, the warp-in spot will be on a random side of the bubble which changes every minute (This is so large fleet fights in majors don't get fucked up). It also means that pods aren't safe which I'm not too sure about, maybe pods could be allowed through this warp bubble.
Also congratulations, your greenscreen was released on SISI today.
A bubble like that is permanent, can't be destroyed. I kinda favour my option, which is the same sort of thing, but the structures are destructible. As well, a bubble doesn't slow down fast frigs.
DeleteAs for the random warp in, that would require CCP to code a new game mechanic. Where possible, I favour using existing game mechanics to try to solve problems, since they are more easily and quickly implementable with the fewest issues of bugs and such.
The reason I don't like your tower idea is mainly because it will lead to ganks. I can sit with the plex on D-scan aligned and wait for someone to show up. As soon as they do I give them 30 or 40 seconds then warp, by then he's assumed the rooms empty and warped in. Hes stuck facing all these webs and warp disruptions whilst I can pop in and destroy him (Unless the guy is a really exceptional pilot and I'm awful)
DeleteThis may lead to people not doing plexes if someones on dscan, because they know they could easily get killed. They may decide that they'll sit on the gate for a minute and wait, but once that starts happening I can still afford to wait 2 or 3 minutes because the towers take some time to kill. Alternatively I could fit a cloaky frigate (It's possible to do without fucking anything over that badly if I use the storyline cloak and targeting rigs)
Oh and this also leads to the shitty luck factor, a minor spawns and someone warps in to begin shooting the towers. Guy enters local, warps to the minor and kills the offensive plexer because of bad timing.
The solution needs encourage good fights. A warp bubble doesn't really favour anyone.
Of course, there are problems with this idea, mainly the speed-tankers. I think though that the best solution for that would be to stop any LP reward once you warp out a site. If someone offensive plexing warps out, they get no reward, the timer resets and they are unable to enter the site again, meaning someone else has to do it. It'd encourage fighting over running.
I don't mind the rats and I never fit for PVE. Imo, the rats get you off the timer to kill them so that they don't kill you. I may not be efficient in my elimination of them, but I'm prepared should a WT enter the plex.
ReplyDeletewhy not have a timer based on the level of control you have over the complex?
ReplyDeleteOk I'm probably going way off the reservation because I've not actually done any FW yet - but bare with me.
You warp in and there are N rats in the system - the timer starts to go UP (starting at a number and then rising steadilly in tune with the number of rats int he system). Your presence adds a rate of decline to the timer, but the number of rats initially overwhelms this (so you may be deducting a value of 2 from the timer every second but the rats are adding 4, so the timer is going up by 2 every second).
As you kill off rats, you gain 'control' - i.e. you'll run the site faster if you can keep the number of rats active to a low number - encouraging you to fight and not just kite around in a frigate. As you kill off rats, more arrive at intervals (not the existing/typical trigger spawns) - forcing you to continue repelling them...if you don't repel them, they regain the upper hand and you start going backwards.
The specific details are probably completely way off here but I think it would add a nice dynamic if 'control' meant something more than "being on grid for N minutes" - i.e. you have to actually TAKE CONTROL.
Once you take control the enemy NPCs should either despawn or stop respawining. You could even have a "finish them" round at the end once you've got the control point where you have to leave none alive in order to secure the complex.
I dunno - all of that was completely off the cuff and without any thought. Feel free to call it out as stupid =)
That strikes me as a really interesting proposal actually. It could be tuned to make soloing very difficult (but not impossible, since removing a style of gameplay is undesirable.)
DeleteThanks Poetic :) normally my suggestions (especially poorly thought out ones) don't get such a kind response.
DeleteTaking it one step further - you could actually tune it to what is coming into the plex. So if you take a massive blitz fleet in to try and overwhelm the NPC's, the NPC's response could go up accordingly - that would keep the 'difficulty' somewhat consistent across the board regardless of if you drop a 1 man gang in or a 20 man gang. Kind of hybridizing the above idea with the concept of sleeper escalations.
The goal here is to keep pilots in the sites for longer. Personally I'm not a fan of webbing towers because its not great game play. But if there was an enticing, rewarding and difficult (with scaling difficulty) it would be a honey pot for greedy people and compelling enough to make people want to do it. The longer people spend in a site the more likely it is that they are going to get trapped and PvP hilarity commences.
Adding to that, player characters who turn up and help 'defend' a site could also add to the 'control timer' on the side of their own faction. The sites value could be tuned to the length of time it takes to run the site out so all of a sudden you've got victory conditions for both sides (instigated by an NPC complex, all of a sudden 2 groups of real players are fighting over a reward).
i dunno. You have the media chops. See what our CCP overlords think ;)
The major problem is systemic and not technical: plexes were meant to be PvP, but one side don't show up, turning the action PvE.
ReplyDeleteYour solution is technical and does not solve that. You can't make PvP without opposing players.
But if players are trapped in the plex pocket (due to warp scrambling/disruption), then going after them is possible. Currently, as it is, most plexers start warping out of the pocket the moment someone shows up at the acceleration gate. These towers prevent that initially, until they are destroyed, which would take a few minutes (maybe longer) for the solo pilot.
DeleteThe other option is a permanent warp bubble on the plex.
Do you hate nano pilots that much?
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm trying to say is any solution that also invalidates and entire PVP fitting doctrine (namely kiting) is a poor solution to this problem.
Okay since we're braining storming let me throw this out. Why not a system of escalating plexes. You start with a minor site and you have to destroy all rats and towers and run the button. Hidden in one of the wrecks/containers is a "key" that will open the warp gate of the next plex that spawns as soon as the minor site is complete. That site would be a medium site and the level of difficulty would be increased such that it will force the pilot to "ship up" to run the site. After the medium then a major followed by something on the level of a minor incursion. By stringing plexes together it would encourage pilots to stay in specific system longer thus increasing the chances of PVP. Okay start punching holes in my idea - I have my flack jacket on:-)
ReplyDelete