They're moving to the Caldari militia. Why? They give their reasons, but I'm not sure they make any sense.
According to Pinky Feldman, they're leaving because, a) they massively outnumber the Minmatar during USTZ most nights, b) they're tired of shooting the same people over and over again, and c) they can't do anything meaningful with warzone control (meaning they're tired of being stuck at T1 control.)
None of that makes any sense to me.
Let's start with point A. Are there really that many more Gallente pilots than there are Minmatar pilots? Excluding Fweddit from the equation, I was under the impression that the Minmatar have the militia with the largest number of pilots. So, if Fweddit outnumber us Minmatar in USTZ, aren't they going to outnumber Gallente as well? Do Gallente love to fight while massively outnumbered? I know on some nights, there migth be twenty of us in Huola, and we'd not really bother undocking to fight the fifty or sixty Amarr shouting us down in local.
I'm not so sure Fweddit is going to receive all that different a response from the Gallente (not after the newness and initial appeal of a new enemy wears off, and their shitting up local becomes tired and boring.) Fweddit will start to be blue-balled by the Gallente at some point, nobody undocks when facing three to one odds.
Point B. That will always be the case, especially if you insist on staging out of one system, and don't roam much further than a two or three systems away. Minmatar do this, certainly, but then I haven't heard us complaining that we always have to fight Moar Tears and Fweddit every night (on those nights where the numbers are fairly even.) That will be the case for the Amarr as well, whether they base out of Kamela or Ishomilken.
I think the crux of the matter, the real reason for the move, comes down to point C. They say they've got too many numbers, that they can't find fights most nights, because there's too damned many Amarr. Yet, they also complain that they can't control the warzone. Am I the only one seeing the disconnect there? The contradiction in complaints? Just last week, they controlled over fifty systems, and pushed quite easily to T4 warzone control. That required a lot of plexing and warzone management. Most of which was done by Nulli Secunda. Now that Nulli have left for Geminate, to maintain control of the warzone, Fweddit and Moar Tears would have to continue, not only with the fighting, but with the menial labour of keeping their systems plexed up. The latter is simply something they have zero interest in doing.
I try to remain as unbiased as possible when discussing faction warfare issues, especially between the Minmatar and the Amarr. But in this case, the Amarr complaints about not being able to affect warzone control is a whole lot of disingenuous whining. They have the numbers to do just that, the problem is that they have no interest in doing that.
Currently, Fweddit and Moar Tears make up about 75% of the USTZ Amarr militia population. Of the 25% that have an interest in working towards warzone control, the Minmatar easily outnumber them. Which means that the Minmatar control the warzone, mainly because of a lazy 75%.
So, what does a move to the Caldari militia get them? Well, they get a large militia who are quite interested in warzone control, a large number of alliances who do actively plex systems. This means Fweddit and Moar Tears can continue not giving a rat's ass about warzone control. They get the occasional reward of T4 and T5 warzone control because of the work of others, and can simply concentrate on fighting, without really giving back to the war effort with respect to the menial labour that is required.
Will the Minmatar miss Fweddit and Moar Tears and the fights they brought? Certainly. They're fun dudes to fight. Will the Amarr miss their lazy-assed cohorts? Not likely. They obviously offered up nothing with respect to the fight for warzone control.
smart move by them. Getting to T4/T5 consistently takes both fighters and farmers. Caldari will welcome them to the fold to make T5 that much easier
ReplyDeleteI was wondering why there was so many of them in Ishomilken earlier.
ReplyDeleteJust a quick question. My understanding is that Moar Tears and Fweddit represent far less of the total Amarr militia than 75%. If this were true, given the current reported membership totals for the two alliances, the Amarr militia would hold a grand total of 908 people. Do you think that's correct? I don't. I'm just curious what your basis was for these numbers.
ReplyDeleteI just pulled the number out of my ass, based on what I see when I'm online. Perhaps 75% is too high for total membership ... but active membership, during USTZ, I would bet it's not too far off.
DeleteWhile I was in Fweddit, there was a very consistent rule of thumb: Fweddit's online numbers represented almost exactly one third of militia online numbers and only significantly deviated from this on weekends, where Fweddit's activity tended to dip and the militia tended to increase (Nulli changed that a lot, the Fweddit:Militia ratio changed to about 0.1:1 during that time). If we assume Nulli's activity is ignorable and historical trends continued after I left, at any given time Fweddit represented only about a third of the online militia.
DeleteAll rough estimates, but the trends were very stable for over two months, so I think my projections are good.
You're probably right.
DeleteAt any rate, that is a significant chunk of Amarr that did not give a rat's ass about warzone control. I still think, if Fweddit and Friends wanted to work at warzone control, they could have held enough systems to be at a constant T2 control, with not-unlengthy T3 stays, and the occasional spurt into T4. The warzone would have looked more like the Caldari/Gallente zone.
I could be wrong ... but it seems to me, they are leaving because they can't be assed with plexing. So go somewhere where the militia is already cool with doing the grunt work, and Fweddit can just have fun.
We did plex, it just wasn't our prime focus. Several of our members solo plexed, and our early days in the militia we spent loads of time plexing/flipping systems.
DeletePlexing in Fweddit was never really a decent way of accumulating ISK or LP since the tags were never looted and the LP was split... among the 30 thrashers on field.
Tell me again how there were no fweddit members who plexed?
Deletehttp://i.imgur.com/nPYUG.png
Tell me again how 19 systems were vuln'd before Nulli joined?
Tell me again why most of the nignogs in minmatar in metropolis know me by name, and know not to bother chasing me?
Your troll is weak, and lacks form and substance.
I'm sorry, while "immersive" game play for you and yours might involve spending hours upon hours deplexing systems for no reward other than a boost to your "in game e-ego-peen," most sane, rational individuals don't get their rocks off on that bullshit. Fweddit doesn't have any real ties to Amarr Empire, nor to their shitty LP store. We were quite blunt that we wanted fights, to fight, and fuck plexes. We've said that from day one. We decided to troll the Minmatar by taking systems, making them vuln, and walking away. It went so well, and Nulli was joining, we kept it up to see how far we could push it. When we hit the Dplexer wall in mid metro hiding behind instalocking nerds on a non-regional gate, and Nulli needed to gtfo.. we cashed in happy, and GFTO (but not before dropping/seeding farming alts all through Minmatar [the ISK printing is just too easy to pass up]).
So while you all pat yourselves on the back, telling each other "job well done," that's cool.. we'll get the same amount of fights, if not more.. probably better quality fights, and have an LP store that's actually worth a damn (besides the slicer market, which is LOL-collapsed).
Minmatar didn't offer us anything unique or exciting. I'm sure that there are just as many trollish imps in Gallente and Caldari to keep us entertained. I'm sure there are just as many people that are willing to spin spin sugar shit to meet whatever end they'd like; to paint our actions however they feel they need. That was the whole point of the meta troll, that you should have perhaps warned riverni was coming... Your imps accept whatever the frack you tell them about Fweddit, without any critical thinking other than your futile attempts at analysis.
Either way, TL:DR Fweddit == http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6y7sjhX251rsaco0.gif
-Sehanine
We often saw Fweddit dudes defensive plexing with us so it is unfair to say they not care about warzone control, that IS warzone control, offensive plexing is often just lp farming. Mra Rednu
DeleteI thi I the problem I saw was that the Amarr militia dong want to push wars one controll regularly, I think this is not good for them as who wants to fly for a militia that isn't taking care of their members. Frankly I can do caldari or Amarr, just the way my standings work out. I would rather do Amarr as I like the ships rewards better, but if they are never going to push war one controll what's the point.
ReplyDeleteSecondly I think they are probably tired of all the spies the minmatar have in the militia. Now I know spying is common but when it starts affecting getting good fights, then I guess the feeling is minmatar can fight their own Alts if they want to keep the spying up to the level they have been having.
I'm currently taking a break in the wormhole, but my militia corp is parked in the caldari militia for the last week. I have sold about 6b isk of slicers since cash out and I have another 500 blueprints I'm working on slowly.
Zandramus
The issue is that the entire US TZ cared mostly about PVP versus warzone control. We attempted to care about warzone control the first 6 or so weeks that we were there, but its such a losing proposition, boring as fuck unless you're there to farm, and Nulli's efforts pretty much confirmed why we were justified in not caring. I agree that it takes a bit of effort, and should take some effort to reach higher tiers and push warzone, but the bigger issue is the perceieved psychology regarding motivating people to plex especially when it comes to players new to FW. You can call it laziness if you want, but I don't think you understand how difficult it is to get people new to the militia to keep logging in when you attempt to have any focus on plexing for your militia.
ReplyDeleteThe key issue is the carrot at the end of the stick is a bit too far away with only Tier 4 being profitable. Without the promise of profitable LP, offensive plexing burns people out fast. You can call it laziness, but whenever we've attempted to care about warzone control in the past, people just stopped logging in far before it was clear we would ever come close to making any meaningful push. The problem is, we're PVP-focused groups. If you're spending time running plexes for warzone control, you're not PVPing. Even if you get occasional PVP fights, going back to reship and having your opponent contest your site leads to less than optimal plexing. PVP and warzone control are hilariously disjointed under the current mechanics.
Sure we're dominant in the US TZ, but that still doesn't even come close to touching the EU TZ's numbers. Even when we took our US TZ numbers advantage and put together optimized plexing fleets that actually spread out, all of our work was undone by Minmatar EU TZ by the next day. Minmatar EU TZ is a plexing machine, so breaking your option C down a bit more, we have too many pilots to get fights at night, not many roaming options, and not enough US TZ members to overcome their EU TZ. I of all people really would love to have a situation where it makes sense to plex for your own militia and you can still be profitable, but the reality of it is FW current mechanics are broken.
Look at the two scenarios:
1) I spend 30 hours plexing and take one of my own systems on my own, it could still be months until we can cash out or push the warzone a meaningful amount, in the meantime I just spent 30 hours that I could have been PVPing, i'm still poor, and if I use alternate means to fund myself i'm still taking more of my time away from PVPing.
2) I spend most of my time PVPing and ignore warzone control. In the meantime I spend 15 hours plexing for guaranteed and weekly immediate Minmatar Tier 5 and i've already made as much as I would have, plexing for my own faction in half the time.
Its easy for critics to call someone lazy in those situations, unless you've been in our shoes you have no idea what you're talking about. I can tell you this though, from at least the Moar Tears side, for the first 6 weeks we slowly became more and more broke due to lost ship attrition and it was clear that combined with their massive EU TZ and plexing alts, we were in for a long grind. So then we stopped caring, got Minmatar farm alts, and were suddenly able to fly SFIs everywhere.
I stopped reading after your first few judgmental paragraphs.
ReplyDeleteFweddit is about Redditors doing "faction warfare" in EVE. If you don't understand that, lurk more on reddit.
see? I can be judgmental too.