So, to the Faction Warfare session of the summit. As written on page 107 of the report:
The third item on Hans' notes was LP payouts for plexing only occurring within proximity of the timer. Hans explained that all players inside the plex contributing to its seizure should be eligible for pay, not just those that camp the button.
CCP Soundwave expressed concern that this is just going to lead to fleets putting an interceptor on the button and waiting on the warp-in, and wants to leave the mechanic as it is for the time being and see how things play out.
Soundwave's response brings up the question, how often do the developers play EVE Online? What areas of the game are they active? Would CCP's statistical logging really tell them how fleets are organizing within plexes? I'm guessing, no, so devs actually witnessing said behaviour seems important to me. How do you get a feel for what is necessary, as a developer, without actually experiencing it in some fashion? Either as an actual faction warfare pilot, or as a cloaked observer?
Why would Soundwave have concerns that one person runs down the timer, while the rest of a fleet waits at their optimals on the warp-in? This is the correct defensive posture on an offensive plex. Why Hans did not point all of this out to Soundwave, I'm not sure. Perhaps because he had to type (rather than speak), everything was delayed, and he was feeling rushed to get on with as much as he could. I would hope that since the Summit, Soundwave has been made aware of normal fleet plexing practices. Seeing that his concern is a tactical reality, there's little argument against awarding LP to everyone on the plex grid when the timer hits 0:00.
(One comment, in defense of Hans not correcting Soundwave, is that the Summit happened during the early days of faction warfare, and as such, the tactic of one button runner, the rest of a fleet on the warp-in, might not have been as prevalent as it is now. That might be true. I don't recall the situation back at the beginning of June. But then, I do not recall a time when that strategy wasn't in-effect, but memory is a funny thing.)
Anyhow, it would be a nice little change if everyone who assists in running down and defending an offensive plex were rewarded with a cut of the loyalty points.
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From that Summit Report quote above, I did remove a few sentences where Hans suggests a changes to the mechanics to limit the ability for people to "steal" plex loyalty points. I disagree with that sentiment, so did not include them. You don't code rude behaviour out of the game. Yes, I've been a "victim" of this sort of behaviour. Yes, I got all hot and bothered by it. But I've never once called for game mechanic changes to remove that behaviour. We deal with it on our own, either with words, weapons or tears.
I'm not getting the point you are trying to make, but I don't know a lot about faction warfare.
ReplyDeleteSo what you're saying is that Soundwave didn't like a proposed changed because it would promote a specific tactical setup that he does not like. But that the tactical setup is actually already happening, so he should just roll with it.
The fact that a trade-of is the correct play doesn't in my opinion require that the mechanic change to promote it. Very much in the same way you don't adapt the mechanic to remove something you don't like as you added in the remarks
I thought I made my point with this sentence:
Delete"Seeing that his concern is a tactical reality, there's little argument against awarding LP to everyone on the plex grid when the timer hits 0:00."
If that's Soundwave's only concern for not awarding LP to everyone on grid with the Plex, then it is a weak concern, since it has been happening for a long long while. If he has other concerns, he should make those known. It also shows a basic lack of understanding on how FW groups play the game.
Eh, I know exactly the point Stan's making. And I think you're right, PS.
ReplyDeleteBack in '09, it was the same way when we o-plexed in fleets as it is now - you put a fast ship on the button to keep the timer rolling while the rest of the fleet sat on the warp in. As you say, this is SOP, and properly so.
Frankly, Hans is right - and Stoffer not nearly as much so - that it's ridiculous that anyone who is actually in the plex but not in timer range of the button gets no credit and therefore no LP. As you point out, they are as much a part of the effort by providing protection as the person orbiting the button. I wouldn't extend that to outside of the plex, anywhere (say sitting on the accel gate) ... but if you're in, you bloody well should be IN.
Nowadays, it means silliness such as burning toward the button in the final seconds so that as much of the fleet as possible can get on it ... and logically speaking that's ridiculous. It gets it done, but that's all you can say, and there is simply no rationale that supports it. Not that I can reasonably come up with, anyway, and Stoffer offers no support for why it's unacceptable to him so we can understand.