Thursday, September 20, 2012

CSM7 - Disenchantment

I was a very strong supporter of CSM7. I've a number of posts either cheerleading their efforts (especially the work of Hans Jagerblitzen) or attacking those who would (unfairly) decry their efforts.

It's not that I don't still support some of the work they are doing, but I have soured somewhat on aspects of the CSM7 administration and their behaviour.

What lead to this recent disenchantment?

First, there was the Voting Reform thread (the original, not the reboot by CCP Xhagen). Except for Trebor, who had the misfortune of creating the thread, the rest of CSM7 cries innocence, that they had nothing to do with Trebor's proposals. They seek out CCP Xhagen to save them from themselves. They can tell us that they didn't spill the milk, except that we can clearly see them standing in a puddle of it.

There's little doubt in my mind that Trebor did not go rogue, that his proposal and, more importantly, the criteria for submitted proposals were not created in a vacuum. Trebor ran this by his colleagues. They told him "Looks good, go ahead and post it." It's not in Trebor's nature to do things on his own without the input and approval of his fellow representatives.

So when they try to distance themselves from the proposal, leave Trebor twisting in the wind, it smacks of nothing less than political opportunism. Word is that Trebor does not plan to run for CSM8, that this is his last term. So, if someone is going to be the fall guy, might as well be the guy with no further CSM aspirations. Super convenient that he planted that tree in the first place, it becomes super easy to hang him from it.

I'm fine with throwing people under the bus, if they're not contributing, not pulling their weight. But to throw someone under the bus for something the group agreed upon, that's kind of sickening. If CSM7 representatives had disagreements with Trebor's voting reform criteria, then he definitely would not have created the reform thread until there was that consensus. I don't even know Trebor, but it's obvious (to me) that is how he operates.

The entire voting reform debacle reminds me of a section of the CSM Report. The Crimewatch section where CCP Greyscale presents an idea for solving the gatecamp "problem." A few CSM members agreed with the idea, that it seemed sound. Not a single concern or objection was voiced from anybody else (not even the lowsec candidates, of whom this would affect the most). It wasn't until two months later, when the players got to see what went down in that session, when player objections began appearing, that the CSM suddenly realized that, yeah, it was a bad idea.

Crimewatch and gate guns. Voting reform proposals. There's little reason to think that the CSM can even recognize a bad idea when it's presented to them. They only acknowledge an idea as bad for the game when the playerbase starts hollering, "This idea is bad for the game." The playerbase is proving to be a better CSM than the CSM itself.

Second thing that lead to my current disenchantment, was the Ripard Teg podcast on Alekseyev's Declarations of War. This entire discussion was a trainwreck. Hans, Seleene, and Aleks entered the conversation looking for a fight. Aleks was constantly on the attack, never deigning to listen to a thing Ripard had to say. Ripard had some excellent points on using the media to get messages out to a wider audience or to pressure CCP in certain areas. The CSM dismissed him out of hand. Ripard had some excellent points on how the CSM could improve their messaging. Again, his suggestions were disregarded. The CSM was blinded by it's own need to defend itself from previous attacks and accusations. They missed an opportunity to win over somebody who has a good degree of influence in the community. The CSM came out of the proceeding looking petty and self-absorbed.

Now that some shit has come down, instead of manning up, admitting mistakes, really attempting to improve, I feel they're hunkering down. Groups hugs all around whenever a bad person says something bad about any of them. They're insulating themselves with their own group-perpetuated approval loop. Recursive group-esteem boosting. "Don't listen to them Aleks. I think all your interjections and speaking-before-thinking during the Ripard podcast were a-okay! Keep on truckin', brah!"

***

This post was originally going to be about ways in which the CSM could improve it's messaging. More transparency. More insight into the CCP/CSM process. More legitimization of the CSM by CCP.

But instead, this post morphed into something else entirely.

I apparently have a lot of say about CSM7 right now. So, expect a series of posts over the next few days. Messaging, for sure. I've also been giving some thought to CSM6's term, and how CSM7 would have handled the problems of last year. A brainstorm on where we might be today with EVE Online had CSM7 been the people in charge during 2011. (Hint: not a very good place.)

21 comments :

  1. Don't waste your time, Poetic. Everyone has pretty much written off this group of losers already.

    This is what you get when role-playing asshats in the game become RL asshats outside of the game. Particularly, Alekseyev Karrde, who has spent most of his CSM time just insulting players in forums and on their blogs.

    If we want a CSM that is worth a damn in the future, then CCP is going to need to set some sort of real qualification criteria for CSM candidates, other than just being a well-known asshat with a large alliance.

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    1. You sound pretty buttmad. Honestly, it doesn't matter what the nullsec guys think of Alek what matters is his ability to communicate meaningful ideas and changes regarding crimewatch with the players it will impact and CCP.

      I think Goons very own Courthouse said on a podcast we were on together a while back, the only thing that truly matters regarding CSM effectiveness is their relationship with CCP and their ability to get their voice heard by CCP as well. Now whether they're about to have a quality relationship with the general player base at the same time, thats a whole different thing, but like I said before and have said many times, Alek has done a good job at being willing to listen to the community that will be impacted by the crimewatch changes. There may be people who don't like him, but that hasn't impacted his ability to listen.

      Whether or not he can successfully convert any of that going into the winter patch still has yet to be seen and will ultimately be his real test. Personally, i'm holding off any major judgement until that happens.

      Qualification criteria for CSM candidates? If you're so eager for change what would you recommend then to weed out the asshats with large alliances and getting candidates that are "worth a damn". As long as there is the general playerbase voting for the council in a single election, the status quo will remain relatively the same, but I would love to hear your ideas.

      Delete
  2. Poe, you're way off base with a number of your assumptions. I know that will probably make you even more sure that you are 'right' but you don't really seem interested in doing more than being upset right now. You are not helping things along, nor are you hindering the work we are doing either. If you'd actually like to talk to us, that can be arranged or you can keep doing what you are doing.

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    1. Oh lucky Poetic, they'll give you a guest spot on Aleks' podcast so you too can get the Ripard Teg treatment!

      Delete
    2. What is with all the invitations (other CSM7s have come forward) to hear to "true story" behind closed doors? Am I somehow more entitled to hear what "really happened" than the rest of the playerbase?

      I'd read about it in a public forum.

      Delete
    3. It's not anything special to arrange. I talk to folks all the time about CSM stuff if they want to and you can take away from it whatever you like. Just putting it out there again. v0v

      Delete
    4. Why don't you try "putting it out" in public, then?

      Delete
    5. Done and done.

      https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1948008#post1948008

      There's no big secrets, really.

      Delete
    6. "Oh, I could give you an answer, but the only ones who'd understand it would be you and me . . . and that includes your teacher."
      – Lyle Lanley

      Delete
    7. If there are no secrets, then post CSM business only on the forums and not in your private blogs.

      Private discussions result in rumors, misinformation, and discrepancies. Keep all CSM-related discussions public.

      Stop wasting time in futile and ongoing attempts to defend yourselves. If you screwed up (or not), accept responsibility, apologize and move on. It worked for Mittens; it will work for you.

      Finally, and most importantly, insults and trolling from CSM members are *not* appreciated. Please ask CCP to kick Aleks off the CSM, if he can't keep himself under better control.

      Delete
    8. Bye Seleene....

      Delete
  3. I didn't want to call CSM7 a failed CSM until I heard Ripard take it to them in the DoW podcast. Courthouse called them a failed CSM many weeks before that.

    This CSM is a tool of CCP, and not a Representative of the Player Base. Outside of the FW dude.

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    1. I agree.

      Any respect I had for the current CSM went out the door after the podcast with Ripard.

      There just isn't any reason for any other player to step forward to address this CSM, if they are also just going to get pissed on in a podcast.

      Delete
  4. The failure of CSM to use the public forums that ccp created explicitly for them is a real problem. But that problem is not new to csm 7. It mainly started with csm 6.

    They want to have their own blog. Or the biggest joke a "fireside chat." With players. They expect players will sit there for an hour listening to stuff they don't care about for the opportunity to ask a question and receive a soundbite for an answer. That they came up with this idea that compares them in importance to the president of the united states says much.

    The political reasons for steering clear of eve-o's public forums are clear. If you talk to them privately they can tell you what you want to hear.

    Also the forums do not allow them to control the venue. People can take them to task regarding specifics. Fireside chats don't allow any sort of indepth discussion.

    Luckilly while the csms after csm 5 is doing less and less publicly on the eve forums ccp is doing more. The direct contact with ccp has been great to see on eve-o and mitigates the need for a csm.

    I will say that Hans is the exception here. I may not always like what he is doing, but he is at least posting on the eve forums and interacting with and, telling players what he is thinking. I give him allot of credit for that.

    -Cearain

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  5. Looks like you are getting ready to run for CSM 8

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  6. My general impression is that the votes I cast for Two Step and Hans have been worthwhile, from what I have seen in this CSM. However, I have been increasingly disappointed with my choice to support Alekseyev Karrde for CSM7, and the recent DoW podcast did nothing to change that feeling.

    As I did not vote for any of the other sitting members, I cannot say I am experiencing any disappointment with regard to their performance. I had no expectation of representation, but I do admit I should pay closer attention to what the others are doing.

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  7. Will your next blog ask Seleene for his birth certificate?

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    Replies
    1. Aww, look who's upset because he can't trap bloggers on his podcast about this!

      Delete
    2. Way to elevate the discourse.

      It was especially telling after Ripard had to leave. The conversation immediately turned to a relieved self-justification and back-patting. "He's wrong. We really are doing a good job and we don't need any reasonable discussion from that old fart Ripard."

      How many times did Ripard admit that he was wrong? How many times did the interviewers?

      Delete
  8. Easy to whine and complain and jeer from the spectator cheapseats, isn't it?

    The CSM have a tough, mostly thankless job to do (if it was easy I figure all you anonymous types would be doing it). I give them credit for running for CSM in the first place and putting themselves out there for all of you to throw rotten fruit at.

    If any of you anonymous types find your balls, I expect to see you running for the next CSM?

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