If the aim is to keep people in highsec, and to encourage more people to flock to it, then I suppose the changes this last year are fantastic.
I think by the end of 2013, for sure, we'll have a very clear indication of the direction CCP wishes to take with this game. Especially, if they end up nerfing freighter ganking (which would be CCP stepping in to protect the stupid, once again.)
So, yeah, I was mad bro! Just in a foul foul mood when I logged into Fweddit comms to see what was going on. And to log in to hear DurrHurrDurr screaming once again. Man, that did not help my mood. So I joined fleet, with the sole intention of ganking him. Which isn't very nice, but neither does he need to scream over comms like an 8 year old either. It's grating on the nerves.
I don't hate Durr. I don't even dislike him. He just gives me a bloody headache sometimes. And we've had three straight days of him already. When's he's not acting like a hyperactive eight year-old white supremacist, he seems like an alright guy. He's not a stupid guy, he actually seems reasonably well-read (which was a bit of a revelation, because I wouldn't have been surprised if I'd been told that he couldn't read.)
The best Durr moments are when he's not in a fleet or commanding a fleet (though he is a capable FC.) It is when he's simply in comms shooting the shit with people. When he's talking game mechanics. Or ship fittings. Or telling Test and nullsec stories. I really like listening to the shit he has to say during those times.
So I was mad. And I ganked him. And then the rest of Fweddit ganked me. I think all is cool once again, though. I don't think Durr holds grudges. But if he does, I can't very well hold it against him.
But back to kill rights. It's not all doom and gloom. There's some interesting emergent gameplay that could develop from it (as long as CCP doesn't break out the nerf bat.) Alt voiding. Kill right baiting. This could very well be some good stuff.
And then there's the bounty system. (Which I'll talk about in another post.) I don't think it's much of a game changer, but it's effectively the return of ship insurance to gankers. Which is cool. The stuff I'm really looking forward to with the bounty system won't come until a future iteration.
So, whereas there is some cause for concern, with the recent highsec changes CCP have been making of late, it's not the end of EVE Online, by any stretch of the imagination.
And this, for those that disagree with me every which way to Friday:
+1 for ganking DurrHurrDurr...lol
ReplyDeleteAnd, glad to see you're not all doom and gloom about the upcoming changes. I haven't even begun to start working through all the combinations for flags and killrights. I'm sure there will be weird scenarios that we won't even think about until it goes live. Hopefully they'll put things onto the test servers way in advance so we can find some of the bugs.
I want to say that I respect your opinion. Not in the way one has to respect the opinion of an idiot just because he has a right to voice it. No, not like that. I respect it like I respect my grandpa's opinion simply because he's older, wiser and has only my best interest at heart. So I listen to what he says with both my ears. Same thing with you.
ReplyDeleteSo when my first reaction is to think "Poetic is being an silly" I realize I'm most likely misunderstanding something or missing something. That it's probably me being stupid; sadly a surprisingly common thing.
Why do you think alt-voiding will be a problem? I see how Killright baiting will come to be born, but that's another topic, so let's leave it aside for now.
As I understand it you get a kill right on me if I attack you, whether or not I get to destroy your ship. But lets assume it only happens if I kill you.
If you sell the kill right, to clear it up all I have to do is come out in a newb ship and have my alt pay your price to activate the suspect flag and then kill my main. But I will only do this if it's free or a stupid low price. Because if I killed you in an incursus and you place a 20million price tag on the kill right, I'll be damned if I help you replace the incursus and get another for backup too! I'm not going to help you profit! Even if I killed you in a 400million ship I know that insurance plus 20million will go a long way towards helping you replace that ship. I'm a cheap bastard, I'm not doing that! Why? It would be the equivalent of an apology "sorry I ganked you, here's 20million from MY POCKET to help you get back on your feet". Yeah right!
So if anyone else is going to pay the 20 million, which is potatoes, it's going to be some other ganker who sees me flying around and wants to kill me; either because I'm carrying cargo, flying something juicy or because he wants my tears. 20Million to freely gank me with no consequences on high sec is pretty cheap! So he'll probably have a go at me.
If he kills me, you get 20million. If he fails you still get your 20 million. You get paid every time someone activates the kill right, during 30 days, regardless of outcome. Worst case scenario is no one activates it and you don't get paid, but neither did you loose anything extra. It's like getting free tickets to a lottery. Next slightly bad case scenario is the kill right is activated once only, either because I got destroyed or only one person tried. Then you get only 20 million. Best case scenario is it gets activated several times, in which case you make sweet sweet money. In all but one you make money, in none do you loose money other than the original loss I incurred upon you.
It's up to the 'gankee' to place the proper price on the kill right so he can make money off the ganker. If he places 0.00 ISK as the price of the kill right he's basically failing an IQ test.
How can this all be bad for the game? And remember, I'm leaving kill right baiting as a separate thing, which is likely to emerge as new gameplay; such things always do. But I don't see how alt-voiding can be a problem.
I don't believe I said Alt Voiding is bad for the game. If carebears end up putting their kill rights for 0 ISK (as I suspect they will over time), then less power to them.
DeleteI'd love to see lots of alt voiding of kill rights.
Carebears aren't going to put their kill rights at 0 ISK if they know that alt-voiding is a thing. There will be a period of time, perhaps, where, out of ignorance, players may do that, somehow thinking that it will get their kill rights picked up by legitimate bounty hunters. But honestly, I don't see it happening in the long-term. You seem to believe that carebears aren't much more in the brains department than pre-schoolers, but let's all step back for a second and remember that these are EVE carebears we're talking about. There are tons of people who are intrigued by EVE by never even try the game because they think the learning curve will be too steep. Every carebear in EVE Online has at least crossed that hurdle before coming into the game. And if you've stuck around long enough to make your start, and be out there mining in an asteroid belt in an actual mining vessel, I think your intelligence about the game deserves at least a little more respect than what is on display in the typical anti-bear Poetic Stanziel blog post.
DeleteAll of this aside, your assumption about what is going to happen is really nothing more than that, an assumption. Nearly everything you've said on this issue is based on the fallacy that something is likely to happen just because it is one of many possibilities. In reality, you believe in your conclusions not because they are any more or less likely than others, but because they are compatible with your deep-seated fears, anxieties, and paranoia about CCP, the CSM, and the direction EVE is heading in. MMOs are packed with people like you, so thirsty for meta-drama that every little thing becomes a "last straw" on the path to apocalyptic breakdown of the game. Sorry, but this stuff, while important and worth talking about, is actually far less interesting than you're making it out to be.
The problem with your POV on this, Poetic, is that you treat all high-sec PVP as a "profession," when in fact much of it is no more than a diversion--and one that people often engage in specifically *because* they're already on the boredom train to a cancelled subscription, or because they want a taste of PVP that is protected by predictable mechanics that work only in their favor.
ReplyDeleteTrying to push those people into low or null, where they'd probably enjoy themselves more if they gave it a shot (and of course, where they'd all encounter more action if they and their compatriots weren't so busy doing stupid stuff like suicide ganking miners), would be a good step forward. But the thing is, CCP isn't even doing that. All of this high-sec PVP that you promote will still be 100% possible. It's just that the risk quotient has gone up. PVP'ers should love that, but of course, their true colors have shone through in the wake of these devblogs, and we now know that many of them are just as carebearish about their "safety" as ... well ... carebears.
It's the height of hypocrisy for you to denounce carebears because they believe that game mechanics should keep them safe, while also denouncing changes to a series of game mechanics that, because they were self-evidently convoluted and messed up before, kept endless reams of high-sec pirates and gankers "safe" within the confines of their activities. These changes aren't going to eliminate anything. They're going to make those very activities you'd like to see preserved more exciting and impactful.
And, yes, more dangerous for gankers, who have gotten used to the limited sequence of events under the current system. I gank you, you die, CONCORD kills me, repeat. How is that any more consequential than grinding mobs in WoW? How is that *not* essentially "Theme Park PVP"? I thought you were against the theme-parkization of EVE, but you only seem to feel that way about one side of the equation. EVE apparently can't be "theme park" enough for you when it comes to PVP.
"The problem with your POV on this, Poetic, is that you treat all high-sec PVP as a "profession..."
DeleteI do. And CCP has certainly killed off a number of those professions. Whether these highsec action are performed by people already out the door, or not, is up for some debate.
And highsec PvP is only "theme park" as you describe it because a certain segment of the population feels the game should protect them, that they should expend no effort protecting themselves.
These highsec "games" would die a pretty quick death if these "stupid" players would invest 30 minutes learning a few basics about the game and its mechanics.
Really? Care to say what that "30 minutes of learning a few basics" would change about the high-sec games currently being played? Or are you just going to reel off that old tune about how carebears' problem is that they aren't "emergent" enough? I'm sorry, but the reason why carebears have largely not done shit about their condition is because they haven't been able to, not because they're lazy, or ignorant, or whatever else. This notion that only PVP'ers are innovative is so utterly weak. We know that the existing mechanics put non-PVP high-sec players in a bind in terms of actually preventing or fighting back against those who use the one-sided advantage of these broken mechanics to hunt them.
DeleteI'll tell you what, though. These new changes are going to open up a bunch of options, finally, for high-sec carebears to defend themselves in ways that they previously avoided. You're actually going to be able to, say, enlist protection in an asteroid belt in case you get can-flipped. You could have a friend, or an alt, sit right next to you, and as soon as you get flipped, the flipper will be made a suspect and the alt can shoot him down. This is, by the way, something PVP'ers always told carebears to do, knowing full well that rights were one-to-one and non-transferrable (same with suicide ganking) and would end up with the helping vessels being CONCORDed if they intervened. It won't be like that anymore. Finally, those carebears will be able to fight back like the PVP'ers always supposedly wanted them to. And instead of being happy about this, like they always pretended to be when the mechanics overwhelmingly favored their activities, the PVP'ers are crying over it. Because the mechanics no longer protect THEM enough. That is the irony that you're totally failing to see, Poetic. And it's really kind of embarrassing.
You have no idea what you're talking about Anon. A lot of highsec PVPers are looking forward to the highsec changes and the people you see complaining are the the vocal minority thats unable to adapt.
DeleteThe biggest problem, and the one that rarely gets mentioned is the fact that it's not about taking away things that protect the PVPers, its about making things safer for their targets.
Anonymous that was the best response I've seen to all the ganker whining and you are absolutely correct: The "high sec PVPers" are crying about the game mechanics not protecting them anymore. They want risk free "PVP" and are complaining because high sec won't be as safe for them anymore.
DeleteNote: I've said it before but it's worth repeating: I've used quotes in the above text because "high sec PVP" is about as impressive as beating up special needs kids.
It's a valid comparison? Highsec players and special needs? Interesting.
DeletePinky: How do the changes to Crimewatch and bounties make A SINGLE THING safer for carebears? I really think that point needs to be substantiated, because all I see in these changes is a broadening of options. There is nothing in them that makes high-sec a safer place for carebears.
DeleteWhere in the world are people getting this idea that CCP wants to nerf freighter ganking?
ReplyDeleteCuz people are crying for it to be nerfed cuz they should not lose stuff.
DeleteWho's crying for it to be nerfed? The only people I ever see talking about such nerfs are those whose lives are driven by the fear that nerfs are constantly around the corner. This idea that EVE is full of carebears who whine non-stop about this stuff, and that they somehow are in greater number than the forum warriors who fear them so, is utterly absurd. They are a strawman created by crybaby pseudo-PVPers who simply can't stand change, and so they make like it's the end of the game every time CCP releases a new devblog.
DeleteIts a pattern that involves Goons. Whatever they touch outside of nullsec gets nerf-batted. I hope they start running level 4s and doing hisec industry that would be great.
DeleteOr ... that's a narrative invented by Goons and their defenders to stroke the massive egos of the people involved with GoonFleet. They are involved with tons of stuff in EVE. The chances of shit they're involved in NOT being affected by changes to the game are very slim.
DeleteThey could could triple freighter ehp and there will still be people who load them with enough stuff to make it worth ganking. Hisec greifing is one sided in favor of the greifers because of human stupidity not because of any game mechanics and CCP can never nerf that.
ReplyDeleteAll carebears must die...
ReplyDeleteCW2 threatens your superiority, not your gameplay, and the more you complain about it doing things it doesn't (protecting anyone from, well, anything) the more that becomes clear.
ReplyDeleteI generally try to avoid this high sec v. low sec drama. EVE is not a themepark MMO with zones I must cross to proceed. As a WH dweller and aspiring PvP-er, I don't count myself as a carebear (anymore) but lowsec still has no attraction to me. The weird dance with gate guns, aggression timers, standing penalties etc is too complicate from me. High sec is where I hang out if I only have a few minutes to play or can't concentrate on the game much. The alternative would be not logging in at all and I am glad that highsec exists for those situations. I guess, the continuous stream of pirate tears over highsec leaves me all dry. If you don't like highsec, join my WH corp and lets go roam...
ReplyDelete