So, as players, do we have any responsibility to EVE Online's newbies?
As someone who came to EVE Online late, April 2011, I have an occasional worry about EVE dying. Especially when the bitch level from veterans gets particularly high.
(Even from me, although I cannot see myself leaving EVE unless CCP does something monumentally stupid, like turning highsec into a nearly PvP-free zone. I feel more confident that CCP will not do that, much more confident than I did a couple months ago. I have the Ministry of Love to thank for restoring my faith. While highsec has become somewhat safer this last year, the balance hasn't significantly tipped toward carebear gameplay.)
A game that's been around for as long as EVE Online, it's a major outlier compared to every other MMO. There have been MMOs that have been around longer, though their playerbases are but pale shadows of what they once were. That EVE has continued to grow for as long as it has, that's a complete anomaly in the industry. Currently EVE seems to have reached a plateau. EVE seems to be teetering at this moment in time. It's playerbase could very well start to shrink. That's what worries me. I'd like to be playing this game ten years from now.
It seems the only way forward, to grow the game once again, is to attract new players to the fold. EVE is always going to have the slow bleed of veteran players, so we need new players to replace them, plus some.
EVE is such a harsh and unforgiving game, that it doesn't take much to totally turn off a new player. It doesn't take much for them to click UNINSTALL. And I think that's because most new players are used to being coddled by game mechanics. They aren't used to a community that often prides itself on eating its young.
I feel that if new players are given the opportunity to explore the game, to gradually get accustomed to the community, the harsh realities of New Eden, that they'll come to respect how this game is played, that they'll respect that a game that doesn't coddle its players is the more rewarding game experience, that they'll come to respect the actual strength of the community. But this realization is not instant, not in a game like EVE, not in a sandbox, it takes time to shift players from their old expectations and habits.
So, from that I wonder, do we, or should we, as a playerbase, be trying much harder to help our newbies, accept and integrate them into our community, be less critical of their mistakes and assumptions and prejudices? To teach them what EVE Online has to offer as a gaming experience? Should we spend less time feeding on our young, and more time raising them?
There are, of course, excellent examples all over the place of people helping newbros. Giving them ships. Giving them ISK. But there are as many examples of new players that leave the game because they've been treated like complete shit, nothing more than easy marks and tear processors. Certainly, some of those stories, of new players going off the deep end when attacked or scammed, are hilarious, but is it healthy for the game if those stories become more prevalent? Some of those players weren't going to cut it, no matter what, but some may have, had they had a more gentle hand guiding them, rather than a knife to the gut. Someone to give them a pole and instruction on how to use it, rather than just a basket of fish.
Now, before anybody starts screaming. The last group of people that this post is directed at is CCP. This is a player issue. Not a CCP issue. I do not want, would rail against any, mechanic changes that would make it easier for newbies. Players can play how they want. If someone wants to spend their game time trying to scam and/or kill newbies, make their game lives miserable, then so be it. This is a sandbox. I wouldn't dream of telling those people to stop being assholes to new players. Part of the appeal to EVE is the assholery that happens.
So, this is not an issue where CCP needs to step in with game mechanics as a solution. This is purely a sandbox issue, one that is entirely in the hands of the players. Assholery happens. When it's directed at new players, I'd hope it's the exception, not the rule. And I'm pretty sure that is the case.
I know many of us give out fish, often. I've done it. Just the other day I killed a dude, and after looking at the killmail realized that a) he was flying a really inexpensive meta-module fit, and b) his character was eight days old. Fear that this guy might get fed up being killed all the time (and he was getting popped frequently), that he might give up on EVE, I sent him a nice evemail and 25M ISK, and a couple suggestions on where to go for some PvP and general EVE training (Fweddit, of course, was one of those suggestions.) I know Sindel has her angel project, where she gives out free ships to newbros. I know Fweddit itself pitched in and helped replace a Loki after relieving a relatively new player of their's. These stories are everywhere, but all of this is just handing out fish.
What about giving out the rod so that they can catch their own fish?
There is EVE University. But I've always thought that they mostly churn out the wrong type of player. They teach mechanics and such, for sure, but when it comes to teaching players how to approach the game, that's where EVE University mostly fails. They don't teach the value of conflict, but how to avoid conflict. We need fewer players with a sense of entitlement about their playstyle and their stuff. We need players who accept and/or embrace risk, not those averse to it.
There's blogs and video, too. I've written articles explaining the differences between EVE and the generic theme park MMO. I'm currently writing a series about skill training for PvP. There a lots of blog entries out there doing the same sort thing. All of this is fantastic. (I welcome anybody to post links to their newbie-related articles in the comments.)
I'd like to see more of it.
I know there's already lots of goodwill in this game towards newbros. I'm not suggesting there isn't any. But I think all too often we give out fish and think that solves problems. I'd like to see more effort from players on handing out rods and instruction thereof. I'd like to see more alliances, especially the larger alliances, with more prevalent newbie recruiting practices, with infrastructure in place to teach these new players about the game (not just how to press F1.) I'd like to see more mini EVE University's, but churning out players with the right mindset for this game, players embracing the conflict, not despising it.
The next time you kill a newbie, maybe stop, take a moment, start a conversation with them. Be patient. Give advice. Maybe point them to an alliance that has a strong newbie ethos.
The longevity of EVE Online depends on new players. We should do all we can to teach them the value of the sandbox as a gaming environment. Once they learn the rewards that come from the sandbox, then you kill the shit out of them.

Dreddit has fleets to help set up new players and general Q&A on our mumble.
ReplyDeleteWe have channels ingame and out of game to facilitate their questions.
At it's core EVE is still a game of what YOU make of it, with help from others of course.
Yep. I know Test has a strong newbro ethos. I think that is fantastic. It is why you're the largest alliance in the game. Successful recruiting and retention.
DeleteGot to agree there, Even during the Battle of VFK there was some amazing Newbie love and attention. I went almost straight into Null myself with the CFC, learned a load and comfortably as well I might add.
DeleteIsn't Michael BoltonIII a member of Dreddit? I seem to recall him saying something like that during ATX.
DeleteHe was. But since he is now an employee of CCP Games (as CCP Dolan), he can no longer be a member of player organizations.
DeleteGreat post Stanziel. I won’t bore you with my background but suffice it to say I've trained thousands of people over the last 30 years to enter realworld warzones so I know something about taking care of newbies. First and foremost, if CCP expects the Eve player community to take care of noobs then they’re being unrealistic. In my opinion, here’s could be done:
ReplyDelete1) CCP start an NPC corp that is run by a CCP employee that is focused on training. Afterall training noobs and keeping them in the game is in the best interest of CCP.
2) Let noobs select an environment that will make them either: 1) Limited Access (LA) – invulnerable to attack and restricted from going in to lowsec for 1 month, or 2) Full Access (FA) – all aspects of Eve.
3) LA noobs could be flagged as such and be placed in to the new CCP NPC for pipeline training (e.g. PVP, PVE, industry etc…).
4) Create training clones on Singlarity that give the noobs about 6 months worth of skills and train them PVP/PVE on singlarity.
5) FA noobs can enter the game as they do today.
This really isn’t a hard problem, it just needs some didicated resources and creative thinking from the people who have the most to gain by keeping newbies in the game (i.e. CCP).
I have the first hundred days of a noob documented, though its more experience than guide. I'm more carebear than anything else, maybe a carebear with sudden suicidal low sec tendencies. I'm still here, still playing, and still planning. I've had LOTS of tips from vets along the way but I've not joined any large organisation.
ReplyDeleteThere was a CSM summit discussion last summer about how to help newbies. One of the suggestions I really like a lot is having a game mechanic that encourages newbie mentoring -- connecting newbies with experienced players who are available to answer questions and get them a good start in the game, and rewarding the mentors if they increase the retention rate of their noobs (and costing them isk if they mess up).
ReplyDeleteIn other words, make addicting people to EVE a new profession.
Art of War Alliance and the Open University of Celestial Hardship [0UCH] is focused on one thing: Teaching people how to fish.
ReplyDeleteWe take newbies and give them null sec and low sec survival skills, and basic pvp skills and then send them off to be good soldiers in Other Corporations. We coach new players through the PvE stuff. We explain the game mechanics as we go.
We are not feeder corp for any specific corporation or alliance. We just train people and encourage them to determine their own paths in Eve. Unless you decide to stay on and teach, your time in OUCH is limited to 90 days. Kicking people out of OUCH is a part of daily maintenance.
Go little bird: Fly.
One or two corporations have figured this out: If they take a chance and send a newbie to us, and that newbie makes it through the course, they will get a trained pilot at no cost in time or resources to their corp. The risk is that the pilot fails to finish the course or does not eventually return to them.
I can say with certainty that no other organization in New Eden does what we do.
http://artofwar-alliance.com/2012/11/23/lotb-your-rookie-corp/
I see this in my community too... people wander off. And newbies are treated harshly.
ReplyDeleteIs it time for some schools to be introduced, where young and old can have a chance to mingle? :)
EVE pretty much caters to those few humans left who love detail oriented work and figuring out complications.
ReplyDeleteThe sad thing is the way of the world has changed. The younger generations (I'm 47) are almost completely ADHD affected and have a gigantic sense of self-entitlement. Everything now, now, now, and "I must WIN".
And I see this getting worse seemingly everyday. Honestly there really is not anything we can do about that kind of cultural and societal issue. And I feel that EVE is pretty much going to eventually fade away as WE fade away.
Survival will depend upon attracting other like-minded individuals such as ourselves, and there are not a whole lot out there anymore at all.
Sorry to be such a Gloomy Gus, but there really is not much we can do. We are facing a hurricane wind of stupidity and selfishness run rampant.
So, new player here - and I've been 'sucked' into EVE University. Useful resources for a novice, and they're welcoming enough. What can I do to avoid coming out 'wrong'?
ReplyDeleteHead immediately to the lowsec camp in Aridia. Do not sit around in highsec, near Aldrat, listening to all the horror stories from the scared carebears. Get out to the lowsec camp and start experiencing conflict and loss.
DeleteAnd don't stay in the Uni for longer than 4-5 months. Learn game mechanics, then get the hell out and find a good corp involved in an area of the game you are interested in.
For me, that's Fweddit and faction warfare. For you, that could be Future Corps and wormholes.
Get a bunch of fellow noobs and beg for a free class from Azual:
Deletehttp://www.evealtruist.com/p/pvp-training.html
"So, as players, do we have any responsibility to EVE Online's newbies?"
ReplyDeleteSomeone has to encourage them. Some players choose not to, may even discourage them but if the whole community becomes too hostile Eve will go the way of Shadowbane and Darkfall and other such games that eat their own young.
"I have an occasional worry about EVE dying"
Whiny bitter vets are no threat. People who stop playing and forget about Eve are more of a problem. The solution is to replace them with newbies.
Eve will sink or swim over the next five years based on how it treats new players. And CCP knows this, is on top of this and is doing well (UI tweaks, Aura, new frigates and T1 cruisers).
There's no need to panic although in an emergent game it's always possible that the game might change in very newbie unfriendly ways (eg if nullseccers get bored and devote their time to griefing in high sec).
I'd like to see some of the bigger 0.0 alliances set up newbie PvP training schools in empire. Give them skill plans to follow for four to six weeks, cheap T1 frigs, and classes on the overview, fleet movement, and basic combat. Then, at the end of the training period, have one school's students fight another's in some kind of simple tournament format (something like cruisers with frigate-sized guns, best two out of three). No one is committed to anything when everything's done.
ReplyDeleteFrom their sponsorship, the alliance profs get prestige when their students perform under fire, and a means of effectively screening recruits. The students get a free education and a taste for blood. Everybody wins.
This is very similar in nature to what I wrote about back in April. http://eveallnight.blogspot.com/2012/04/eveolution-how-can-we-help.html
ReplyDeleteIn fact, most of my blogs touch on this. And I've talked lots about this on the Lost in EVE podcast.
In a sandbox WE ARE stakeholders. There is social contract between existing members of this community and those we wish to join us. It is up to us all to create an environment where people can enjoy the harshness of the EVE universe without being harshly treated in this universe.
Good read.
As long as there are grief players, and as long as the game mechanics favor griefing, there is going to be a problem with noobs trying and then quitting the game, in large numbers.
ReplyDeleteConsider, one solo griefer, who plays only occasionally, can easily get 1-5 new players to rage-quit per week - via ganking, can-baiting, scams, etc. That is a loss of some 50-250 potential new players per year, just by keeping the game "fun" for one asshat.
Now, add a wardec system that favors large corps griefing newer and smaller corps - either blowing them up whenever they try to run missions, or forcing them to stay docked in station. Adapt or die, you say? Well, in most cases, I've seen them die together - and then quit together.
So, as a business, do you really want to cater to the griefers? I guess that CCP does, but it isn't a smart strategy, financially speaking
It's a business strategy that has, more or less, worked for them for 10 years. So to argue that their business strategy is a failure, well, you're being disingenuous.
DeleteThere will always be new players trying out EVE. I believe we need to keep EVE in the state that attracted them in the first place. Players are the key to increasing new player retention, easing them through the frustrating new period.
The best way to encourage new players would be to eliminate most of the scumbags who just hang out in high-sec and prey on noobs only.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, this would be something to get The Mittani and the Goons to work on. Most of these high-sec-only so-called "PVPers" aren't exactly on the best of terms with the Goons anyways (probably because the Goons wouldn't let them join up...lol).
Protecting noobs is important to Eve for sure. However, the noob hazing plays a vital role in weeding out the players who really aren't the right person for Eve. The people who can survive, via use of the forums, google, player developed resources and corporations, their own capabilities are the type of people who will sub and stay subbed for years. I think that is why the Eve population has only increased over time. The Eve online community is also very strong as a result.
ReplyDeleteIf CCP made the transition from high sec to low sec a bit easier or more rewarding or less penalizing for pirate activities I think it would help increase the conversion rate of newbies into real eve pilots.
Retribution may well make the transition from high sec to low sec a bit easier. No standing loss for attacking someone, just for pod killing.
ReplyDeleteThere is one observation I need to share on this subject.
ReplyDeleteEvery time I get a chance to talk with new veteran, I ask them a question to the tune of, "Do you remember an instance of people being charitable and friendly in Eve?" And sure enough, each of them remembers that sometime, somewhere, usually long ago, someone has been explicitly nice to them. Refunded the ship they just destroyed and gave valuable advice. Mentored. Handed out tips. Invited to join a corp that went well. Even if later experiences weren't so favourable, by that time they were deeply invested in Eve.
One would think that incidents like these are common, if everyone I ask can remember one happening to them, but they really aren't. What's going on instead, is that those who have experienced them are the ones who stayed. Veterans are veterans now because long ago, someone else has been nice to them. Those who haven't experienced something like this have left Eve, and are simply not around for me to ask.
So yes, you are completely right. I don't think more teaching as such is going to do it, though. It certainly isn't going to hurt, but there's more or less enough, if you know where to look. The problem is that new players don't actually get properly exposed to it, or the real Eve culture, they don't get invested. They don't know where to look, they don't know where to start looking, and the most obvious places, like the official site, or, God forbid, official forums, are pretty incomprehensible.