Saturday, January 26, 2013

Giving Newbies Some Space to Learn

Newbies have it tough in EVE Online. They're thrown into the deep end, no swimming lessons or inflatable armbands to help keep them afloat. It's a sink or swim scenario, and many newbies sink.

If a newbie is lucky, they find a group of people willing to help them out. Throw them a line. Be patient with them. Answer their 8000 questions.

More often than not, they're left treading in the weeds, always struggling to stay afloat.

EVE Online might benefit from a newbie starter zone. Every other MMO has one. And, yes, there's something to be said about a game so cruel and unforgiving, that it's left to chance whether a new player succeeds and stays, or is frustrated and quits. EVE Online is an old game though, nearly a decade old. It needs new players to survive for yet another decade.

Now, before you get all out-of-sorts, I am not suggesting a safe starter zone. Simply a starter zone that allows newbies to make their mistakes alongside people of similar skill level and/or experience in the game. (Always the former, not necessarily the latter.)

The Starter Zone Pocket
The starter zone would be walled off from regular New Eden. It could be in it's own pocket of developed wormhole space. I would suggest that there be one pocket for Minmatar/Gallente and another pocket for Caldari/Amarr. Or there could just be a single pocket, if there's a desire for increased population, leading to more player-to-player interactions.

Each pocket would consist of fifteen systems. seven highsec systems, five lowsec systems, two nullsec systems, and one w-space system. The normal rules for each type of system applies. No secstatus loss in nullsec. No local in w-space. CONCORD in highsec.

One of the highsec systems should be an island, only accessible via lowsec. The nullsec system should be a shortcut between the lowsec systems (to teach players about chokepoints.) The w-space system should be accessible from highsec (this would be something players have to scan down, during the scanning tutorial, and considering how difficult scanning is for new players, allowing them to do it in relative safety is important.)

I would also suggest placing two permanent bubbles on the gate-to-gate warp in the nullsec system. This, to teach players about bubble mechanics, and let them discover methods of avoiding gate-to-gate bubbles.

The Skillcap and Leaving the Starter Zone
There will be a skillcap for playing within the starter zone. Perhaps 2.5 million skillpoints. Perhaps 5 million skillpoints. When players reach the cap, they are immediately transported out of the starter area to one of the traditional racial newbie stations. All of their collected items (no matter where they are located in the starter zone) are "hauled" to their new station. (There could be hard caps on certain types of items transferred, especially those mined and manufactured, in the event players find "get rich quick" loopholes.)

Players can, of course, elect to leave the starting area at any time. An option to do so would appear in stations.

Players can elect to stop their training so that they can remain in the starting area indefinitely. Perhaps because they want to engage in PvP with newbies. Perhaps because they want to act as recruitment for their alliances and corporations. It doesn't really matter the reason. Sure, there will be gankers, but that's okay. New players still need to be introduced to the harsh realities of EVE. In the starter zone, they get to do so with characters near their skill level. It is far easier to get retribution upon a ganker if he too has the skillpoints of a newbie.

Interactions with New Eden
The only way into the starter area is via a new character. Once a character leaves the starting area, there is no method to return.

Interactions between characters in the starting zone and characters in New Eden proper should be kept to a bare minimum. Given that the area will mostly be limited to T1 items (see Market and Industry below), the opportunities for getting rich would likely be low.

Really Tailoring the New Player Experience
The new player tutorials can really hone in on specific aspects of gameplay, because of the diversity of systems, and the limited area of play. Perhaps one mission teaches players how to run a faction warfare plex in lowsec, while fighting rats. Perhaps another mission teaches players how to scan down a wormhole, enter it, and then complete some objective.

All areas of the game can be taught, without sending players on lengthy suicide runs. The starting zone can teach the fundamentals of lowsec, nullsec and w-space. Players can learn, through the starting zone, what areas of the game most interest them.

Industry, manufacturing and mining can and should be taught as well.

The Market and Industry
There should be a fully functioning market in the starting area, but distinct from the New Eden markets. A number of items should still be seeded, but blueprint copies should be available, so that players can manufacture, creating and affecting certain sub-markets themselves. Certain items should be restricted, such as interdictors and bubbles, for instance. Maybe all T2 ships in particular are restricted. (Of course, certain types of gameplay will be restricted due to the skillpoint restrictions.)

Players don't need to learn everything in the starter area, and there is the danger of experienced players creating newbies with very specific skill plans, the aim to dominate certain aspects of the zone. So some care has to be taken in seeding the blueprints for manufacturable items.

All of this should be relatively easy to tweak, though, if problems arise.

Opportunity for Recruitment
One of the real benefits of the starting zone is as a recruitment tool. Major alliances and corporations can set-up recruitment alts in the newbie zone, to help new players along, and to eventually recruit them into their organizations. It will help alliances narrow-down their search, to locate players that may be of value to them, and who demonstrate specific skillsets.

Conclusion
The newbie starting area is not a panacea  for the new player retention problem, but I believe it would help greatly. It's far easier (and less frustrating) for new players to learn a game on a more even playing field with those around them. And it allows the tutorial system greater flexibility and a wider range of options on what can be taught. Currently, the tutorial system teaches highsec, because every other area of space is simply too dangerous for a newbie. The starting area as described allows new players to explore more of what EVE has to offer in an environment where they're more able to defend themselves, in an environment where they should feel less helpless.

24 comments :

  1. So basically an instance. Might as well make it a seperate shard.

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  2. This is a really bad idea, I'm afraid. Here's a fairly concise explanation why:

    The only people who are the carriers of Eve culture and Eve experience are the veterans. The only way culture is transmitted is from veterans to newbies, through communication. ("Culture is positively selected social experience expressed in semiotic systems.")

    By being segregated in this manner the newbies will be forced to reinvent that culture, and it will, instead, be transmitted from older newbies just about to leave the pocket to newer ones. The culture built anew inside the pocket will be radically distinct from the culture outside, simply because the huge number of dice involved never falls the exact same way twice, but once rolled they stay rolled, through the normal process of cultural regeneration.

    Culture clash upon emerging from this pocket will be severe, and will cause an even lower new player retention than now.

    Sorry, you need some other way to prevent newbies from being in conflict with veterans than only letting newbies have conflict with newbies.

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    1. Since veterans are allowed in the pocket via alts, the transference/tutelage of EVE culture will exist.

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    2. Only a very small minority of veterans will actually bother and they will only have a negligible effect. Not to mention that don't we have enough alts really?...

      I've seen it happen before, both personally and from a distance, for the longest time Second Life was set up exactly this way. It's known not to work for what you want it to do.

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    3. Second Life is not a game. It's a 3D instant messaging service. :)

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    4. It is, however, a culture, even though all the distinctly gamelike elements have been excised. It's the place where women PVP. (And I'm dead serious. While men in Eve are satisfied with destroying each other's toy spaceships, women in Second Life sink each other's friendships and marriages.)

      And the culture retransmission works exactly the same way over there.

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    5. Don't forget that the dominant culture of EvE online is, well, kind of crap for newbies. If the goal is to sustain the game by attracting more new players by making the introduction less irritating and prone to the whims of jerk vets, maybe it would be *good* to avoid transmitting too much of that culture into the new player zone. Maybe the softening of EvE's existing culture would be one of the greatest benefits of such a scheme.

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    6. Unfortunately by the time they get out of the pool, they'll still be more or less unable to compete with the vets, but will suffer from culture clash. And remember, people never get out of the new player pools in groups -- for pure timing reasons it's always a solo endeavour.

      I actually wrote about it already so I wouldn't want to repeat myself. Eve's new player experience indeed needs work, just like it's existing culture needs changes to survive -- and no end of either, if anyone cares about my opinion -- but segregation will only make things much worse.

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  3. I have been in EVE since 2006, almost exclusively mining and industry, and decided to start an alt to try out FW. I also wanted to see the Aura tutorials. What I found in the Caldari Kisogo-Umpas-Uitra starter area was vets bragging about how many players they had killed. They were proud of making new players mess up and aggress, usually stating how important it was to explain the tough EVE world by blowing them up. The asteroid belts are stripped clean every morning after DT so that those missions in 3 different arcs that require mining an asteroid look impossible (yes, there are ways around it). Those "helpful" vets are so quick to help by blowing someone up, but couldn't be bothered to answer a single question. As someone said, "if you already know EVE, everything is great...otherwise it's a crappy experience to get into." Watching this sort of stuff makes me understand why you would propose an alternate area. And while I agree with Mary Titor that the social experience is the best of EVE, it is also the worst. But there was some positive that I saw...

    I got 2 private convos. The first was a newbie corp asking me a few questions and then just giving me a much better starter ship and a link to their beginner's guide. They never asked me to join their corp, although there was plenty of info on how to do so. They added me to a private channel that was almost as busy as the NPC corp channel, but full of people actually answering the questions and at times escorting people around up to 2 of the early arc missions. The most helpful advice was how to avoid the "tough guy" vets hanging around the starter systems.

    Most surprising, the second was from a GM asking what I was interested in and what I had tried. He gave me links to guides/wikis and stayed in chat as long as I wanted to ask questions. He encouraged me to contact him if I ran into problems later. So, I think these positive kinds of interaction with newbies is far, far, far better than isolation. IF IF IF something was done to intervene, I would only go so far as to monitor kills in the starter zones and remove those few vets who think ganking 2 days old newbies is fun and/or educational.

    BTW, if anyone wants to visit Uitra, feel free to say hello in that special tough EVE way to LoadedFront/LoadedFront2 and Sir Bulletproof. They are two of the few years old vets seeming to be looking for "goodfights" in all the wrong places.

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  4. So it will end being the same as the regular shard accept a smaller version,2-5 mil SP Goons, PL, Test or any big alliance for that matter running things with alts. Why would you want to do that? Totally seems like a waste of developer time to me.

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  5. I actually wrote several posts about this back in 2011, he main one of which was:
    http://eveoganda.blogspot.com/2011/11/2012-sanctuary-rookie-mini-games.html

    It doesn't have to be an "instanced" or separate thing, game mechanics can make it work easily enough. And the idea or core concept of giving new players a leg-up is still a good one imo

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  6. I'm inclined to agree with mary on this one. eve has a steep learning curve, and one of the biggest factors leading to what we feature in the fly reckless failmail parade is player isolation. much like society the odds of becoming a fully function member of the world drastically decreases when you're limmited to a relatively small contact pool. people NEED to bounce around in the hubub of the eve community. they'll learn more in 10 minutes of chatting with people than they will from the tutorial 9 times out of 10. left to their own devices? we run into people who fit 6 different types of weapon to a dual tanked hurricane fitted with a civilian afterburner o_o

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  7. I'm not seeing a reason why - why is a newbie going to have a better experience spending their first 2-5 months on a separate newbie server?

    Part of what made Eve amazing was that you were part of this huge, living world - massive battles were happening around you which, if you wanted, you could fly to (obviously you wouldn't, but it's a cool thought). You'd see a guy in a freighter autopiloting through hisec, and be blown away by the scale of it. That's a big part of what sold Eve to me.

    I guess the only real advantage I see is that instead of going into a lowsec full of high SP vets, newbies now get to go into a (very small and farmable) lowsec to fight the SP-capped alts of vets who specifically came there to fight newbies. Which honestly, is probably worse. Aside from that, I'm not really seeing what you could do with this model that you couldn't do *without* sealing it off from the rest of Eve.

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    1. This. I honestly don't think that the average person just starting in EVE for the first time wants to be sequestered away from the rest of the experience. They're already sequestered enough as it is by their lack of skillpoints. What *inspires* players to get beyond that point is seeing stuff like battleships, freighters, etc. and thinking "Wow! How can I get into one of those?"

      We have to think back to how we felt when we first started the game. Would we have wanted a special little area for noobs? I can't say that I would have. In fact, the tininess of such a world would likely have led me into a misunderstanding of the size and scope of the main game. There's no way to really give players the correct perspective without dropping them into it.

      The only reason why I can imagine Poetic actually suggested this is to prevent the occurrence of very highly skilled players ganking newbies. That is really the only point served by this separation. But even when that does happen--and I'm not even convinced it's a super-pervasive problem--people are typically willing to give newbies a few million ISK to kit themselves out again. It's not a very big deal unless the player rage-quits before the ISK hits their wallet.

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    2. "The only reason why I can imagine Poetic actually suggested this is to prevent the occurrence of very highly skilled players ganking newbies."

      That, but to a small degree. Mainly to let players experience the various types of space (lowsec, nullsec, and w-space) with other players near their skill level. As it currently stands, the tutorial newbie experience is purely highsec, because any newbie that ventures into lowsec/nullsec/w-space is very very likely to get trounced by a 50M SP veteran. (I see this frequently in lowsec.)

      My idea allows newbies to do a bit of exploring, figuring out what they'd like, in an environment very similar to EVE, but among players of their general skill level. (Which would likely make the experience more fun for them.)

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    3. But if those noobs are unlikely to get trounced going into low/null systems, then what does the experience actually teach them about the game? I could see some noobs coming out of the starting area and thinking, "Well, lowsec wasn't so bad back there, why don't I try going there now?", getting trounced, and then being pissed that they'd been ill-prepared for the reality of the actual New Eden.

      I don't like ganking, mostly because I feel like the people who do it are the worst kind of bored-ass tools, like people who find Two And A Half Men funny. But the reality is that it happens, and that EVE players are already quite responsive to newbies in need of financial help, fitting tips, etc. And honestly, getting baited into aggressing some dumbass isn't likely to happen more than once to the same player anyway.

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  8. That's a really complex solution to a relatively minor problem.

    How simply having a button somewhere that says 'What can I do?'. From that, there is a dedicated tutorial on aspects of the game such as FW, the market, low-sec piracy, and exploration, perhaps including a virtual video description.

    Lots of information already exists about every part of the game. Arguably what's missing is the signpost. For instance, there could be a better advertisement for corporations that recruit newbies than on the launcher splashscreen. Who pays attention to that? Have it accessible in-game, when a newbie wonders what to do next.

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  9. I would have to agree with Poetic, it is a good concept. What would happen is most major Corporations would end in a recruitment toon and there would be a decent number of Veterans to help guide, and recruit the newer people. I don't know if it would ultimatley work, but I do understand why Poetic brought the idea up, since there is a "culture" in EVE to gank newbies and that's just not good for retention.

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  10. This solves exactly nothing, since you suggest all the "harsh realities" are left intact. What is the issue, and how does this help? You don't begin to link new-player retention to this idea in a concrete way.

    Do you also realise that players already do this? They start in a newbie system which has unique rules (no can flipping, no messing with them) and then fly off to arnon, where they largely work with other newbies to do those missions. I know I did.

    This really solves nothing, yet creates a massive amount of possible issues.

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  11. I hate the whole idea of starting noobs in high sec, or other protected space. They should just be forced to start out in one of the NPC stations in null, with no stupid rules about can-flipping, etc. Survival of the fittest.

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  12. @ OP - GREAT POST! Well thought out!

    @ Mary Tito - Being an eve vet I learned the game from scratch without any help at all. So will todays people. They do not need the alliances helping them learn the basics of the game. If the like what they were learning and playing the way the OP wrote then they would stay with the game just like I did. So sorry, YOUR the one that is off base. There is no culture clash since your forcing the issue in your example and in the OP's example it is for them to choose.

    @ mordis mydaddy - good post :-)

    @ Rixx Javix - Where don't you post online? ;-P and yes he did talk about it before!

    @ Connall Tara - I not only disagree with you and you might want to try staying in one corp for a change. People that hop back and forth out of their corporation have issues. How do I know this? I am one of the Bitter Vets that the OP is talking about and I have been here since beta. If you even gave a damn about Eve you would be trying to talk it up and not tear it down. Even CCP is starting to realize that the people like Mary are the main reasons why Eve is not growing like they would like to see it do. They are changing to improve the game. You should want to support that view.

    @ Azual - You’re in an NPC corp. You’re a Hypocrite! You don't embrace eve, you HIDE FROM IT! and if you’re an alt then post with your main! Stop giving grief when you have no idea what the game is like. NPC CORP!!!! BAH!!!

    @ pjharvey - Good idea but needs to go further. The OP's idea is solid.

    @ Khanhrhh - the rules are not followed because the new players do not know what the rules are to petition. So they just quit and that is that. There needs to be more hand holding if they want to keep the new players interested long enough to see the Eve Universe for what it can offer. Not some asshat can flipping or killing them.

    …and I am a bitter vet. Been here since Beta, names Interceptor in game and have many different accounts. Been playing for the last 10 years and look forward to 10 more.

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    1. My favorite part was where you call out someone for hiding behind an alt while posting anonymously.

      Azual Skoll is the name of the guy running the altruist blog. He was one of if not the main guy in Agony's training program before leaving to join the Tuskers

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    2. What Hoarr said.

      BTW, I didn't know that the Tuskers were an NPC corp.

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